http://statenews.com. The country that was built upon immigration might only need to use one language if a recent movement gathers enough support. Nashville, Tenn., has become the focal point of the debate to unify U.S. speakers and make English the official language of the country after a proposal appeared on the city’s ballot in January. If passed, the measure would require all city business to be conducted only in English, which would make Nashville the biggest city in the country to do so. en-us Gryphon 2.2.3b-tsn (woodward)/Foundry5 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:31:24 -0400 webmaster@statenews.com http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40881 This is ridiculous as a tax payer that I have to fund a translator for someone to go to public schools or to be heard in court. The Constitution was written in English. The Bill of Rights were written in English. English is the official language of the armed forces. If you want to live here, learn English. If you don’t want to learn English, either deal with the fact that tax-payers will not pay for a translator, or go back to the country you came from. When my family came over to American there wasn’t this PC-crap that we have today. They learned English the hard way: sink or swim. Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:29:23 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40881 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40884 I appreciate the State News’ pragmatic approach to such a heated issue but the editorial merely scratches the surface. Without a contextualizing feature or article that further explores the socio-political issues and also the rhetorical implications of such a legislative gesture, this piece seems abrupt and incomplete. Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:39:47 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40884 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40885 What’s the point of having an official language? In places where English is widely spoken, it’s usually the only language used in court proceedings, government documents, etc. In places (such as certain towns along the US-Mexico border) where Spanish is the primary language, it makes sense to issue documents in Spanish. Having one national language would remove this pragmatic flexibility, and what exactly would it gain us? If it’s not broke, don’t fix it. Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:49:17 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40885 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40887 “In places where English is widely spoken, it’s usually the only language used in court proceedings, government documents, etc.” That’s highly inaccurate. For instance, Oakland County is currently required to make all documentation available in 26 different languages upon request. While that doesn’t seem like that big of a deal, trimming that down to 1 or 2 languages would save several-100k in print fees, etc. Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:50:54 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40887 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40889 Why is English-Only a good idea? Why is it a problem that we don’t have an official language? English-only movements historically targeted immigrant communities who aren’t acculturating “fast enough,” even though children of immigrants statistically acculturate completely (which includes learning English) in 2-3 generations. Statistically, the only immigrants who traditionally don’t take the time to learn English are older or aren’t planning on being in the U.S. permanently. English is just one very effective tool of the American cultural hegemony that convinces newcomers that fitting in is more important than any previous cultural identity, which manifests itself in 2nd and 3rd gen kids not wanting to even admit to their peers that they speak another language for fear of discrimination. It happened with Jewish immigrants who spoke Yiddish, it happened with German immigrants, especially after WWII, with Korean immigrants in L.A. and it’s currently happening with Latino immigrants across the country, to name only a few examples. Furthermore, bilingual children who get to attend bilingual classes generally receive higher test scores than bilingual children forced into English-only classrooms. Instead of wasting time and resources trying to make English the official language, when, as a previous commenter said, everything is already in English, let’s focus on teaching Americans languages at younger ages. Let’s accept that Spanish option as a nod to our country’s cultural diversity. And let’s not get paranoid that the neighbors across the hall who don’t speak English are going to magically turn this country into a non-English-speaking country. it hasn’t happened in more than 200 years, even when a much greater percentage of the population didn’t speak English. The English-Only movement has been one tool in a effort, whether consciously or not, to discriminate against culturally different American citizens. Saying someone doesn’t fit the American mold because of a language skill is as preposterous as saying their face isn’t shaped or shaded right. Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:15:33 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40889 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40890 Also, why is this a topic of conversation? This is not the only time an English-only movement has been on a ballot. Opponents beat this thing down by 57 percent, a solid majority. Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:19:12 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40890 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40902 “Opponents beat this thing down by 57 percent, a solid majority.” Gee, Prop. 2 got 59% — someone going to tell Ryan? Most ILLEGAL INVADERS do NOT read their native language at the adult level — TAXPAYERS then have to pay translators up to $150/hour. Sick, insane, and ridiculous. Make ILLEGALS pay, not us. Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:24:30 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40902 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40916 Illegal invaders? Really? That’s how you’re going to refer to undocumented people? With the all-caps and the angry tone? Your call, dude. You acknowledged my argument about the vote but didn’t rebut it in any way. I don’t know if you were trying to assume, based on my argument, how I felt about Prop. 2, but the connection is weak and unfounded. Besides, what exactly is your connection between undocumented immigrants and the English-Only movement? I never mentioned undocumented immigrants in connection to the language issue. My argument about 2nd and 3rd gens clearly refers to U.S. citizens – they have to be born in the U.S. (or on a U.S. military base, etc.) to be a 2nd-gen American. Also, the examples of language-based discrimination I used all referred to groups of legal immigrants. The fact that we’re talking about language and you immediately jump to “illegal invasion” is a clear indicator of faulty and discriminatory thinking. Besides, do you really expect the U.S. to stop paying for translators if English becomes the official state language? On the contrary, with smaller communities that have traditionally used more than one language regularly, such a law could actually create a need for more translation services. But go ahead and stick with that argument. After all, your use of Caps Lock helps me understand how strongly you feel. Wed, 17 Jun 2009 10:50:09 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40916 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40918 To Liz Kersjes: I applaud you. Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:15:20 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40918 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40921 I think I am wrting this in English. Not German [Ich spreche Deutsche?] nor Italian [Lei parla italiano?], much less Spanish [Yo si hablo espanol]. So why are so many people worried? As a matter of fact, the Lansing area is overwhermingly English. You have to go to big cities and here all kinds of languages. And get real: we live in a globalized world. And many in this country seem to have an open hostility toward foreign languages. As many in this country continues with this open hostility, the more USA will lose in the competing modern world we are living. As I speak, write and read English, I ask manu coming here to learn it. But I am also very happy with my complete knowledge of Spanish. And wish to learn more German and Italian. Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:04:21 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40921 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40922 This rather surface level article seems to indicate this would only have an impact on “city business”. Private businesses would be free to have the spanish option on their help lines, on their signage etc. Unless of course you conservatives are advocating that the government tell private business owners how to operate their business. Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:33:40 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40922 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40926 “WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE’ kind and intelligent. who was this meant for? Liz or someone else? Coz someone wanted to know? Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:26:11 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40926 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40932 Legal immigration — OK. INVASION OF MILLIONS OF ILLEGALS, SWAMPING SCHOOLS/HOSPITALS/EVERYTHING — I’m putting that on your bill, Liz. Einstein. Good luck. Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:43:31 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40932 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40947 “Illegal invaders? Really? That’s how you’re going to refer to undocumented people?” “Undocumented” is now that PC-term for people that are committing felonies? That’s ridiculous. They are criminals by law and should be treated as such. Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:38:26 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40947 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40949 I like how it seems the general comments so far are people yelling, or saying that since most people speak english who cares or that somehow makes it irrelevant, and missing the main reason (logical rather than xenophobic reason at least) behind the idea: Money. It costs a lot of money to have translators, documents, etc in other languages. Considering how many localities and government agencies there are across the entire United States, you’re not talking about chump change. This does not mean we should or should not make english the only language of government. Thats a value call. But the fact that, nationally, it costs not insubstantial amounts of money that can then no longer be used for other needs is just that, fact. Ultimately, it’s simply a matter of if you’re willing, collectively as a nation, to pay for it. Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:09:15 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40949 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40950 Hey Liz…..I find your use of the PC term “undocumented immigrants” offensive in the extreme. My parents went through more hoops than I can count, filled out more forms, paid more money just so they could follow THE RULES and come to this country LEGALLY. People who just jump in front of the line without following the rules make me sick. Why have rules and laws if you excuse people who don’t follow them? If I come to your house, break in, and just start living there will you call me an “occupant not listed on the lease”? If I steal your car and don’t give it back will I be a car thief or just the car’s “undocumented owner”? The whole point of making English the official language of the country is not only to limit costs of the govt(printing forms, etc in 20 languages is just silly) but more importantly a common language unites a people. Any nation that accepts multiple languages is never better off in terms of unity. Just take a look north for a lesson on how having two official languages unites no one. PS..My parents taught me Spanish…but outside those lessons English was the only language spoken. Growing up I was not allowed to speak in a normal conversion Spanish and I can honestly say the only times I heard my parents speak it in conversation was on the phone to relatives back in Mexico. My parents realized when they came here that learning English quickly and fluently was the key to success. People like you who actually encourage immigrants(illegal and otherwise) to accept speaking anything but English as a second language are hurting them…not helping them. Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:15:57 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40950 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40971 Roberto- Thank you for a voice of reason! Thu, 18 Jun 2009 00:42:10 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40971 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40974 One of the major causes of unrest in late medieval England was the fact that legal and political proceedings and documents were either in Latin or French, which most citizens did not speak or read. It was established then, and enshrined in the civil law, that the due process of law requires that participants in the legal and political processes be able to understand those processes. That’s a good principle, and one that I defy anyone to deny. I don’t see what’s wrong with spending some government money to make sure that, for example, defendants understand the charges against them. That’s an investment in justice I have no problem making, almost regardless of how high the cost is. Are we really so cheap? Thu, 18 Jun 2009 03:39:11 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40974 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40990 The argument that governments should not translate government documents from English into another language assumes only people in the U.S. need to read government documents, which isn’t true. This is a big, important country with a big, influential government, so I would not assume translation services are only for people in the U.S. who don’t speak English. A. Cooper – Well said. Roberto Lopez – it’s interesting, but completely understandable, that some of the strongest anti-illegal immigration opinions come from legal immigrants. Regarding your personal story about language acquisition, you are a living example of a 2nd gen American being so strongly influenced by the hegemonic power of English that you learned the language fluently and easily from childhood. I agree that everyone living here needs to know English in most parts of the country to get by, but I also believe everyone living here should learn at least one other language. My fluency in Spanish is one of the best aspects of my resume and has gotten me jobs. If you’re not fluent in Spanish (but it sounds like you are…) then it’s a shame – it’s a great skill and a beautiful language. Chinese, Japanese and Arabic are also great languages to know these days. About the undocumented immigrant thing… well, sorry that offends you. But you don’t refer to the person stealing your car as an illegal person, even thought that person clearly broke the law. You would say convicted felon, perhaps, which is a more accurate description. But I admit I use the term undocumented after discussing the term with countless immigrants (both legal and, oh I’ll say it, illegal) and immigrant-rights activists. Oh, and I’m white. So very white. And blond. Una gringa pura hasta el fin. ;) Thu, 18 Jun 2009 11:03:51 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40990 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40994 Oh, one last thing, Roberto – the problems with common language in Canada stem from the national government trying to force Quebec to adopt English, even though Quebec has historically always spoken French. French wasn’t something a few immigrants forced on the people of Quebec, it’s been the language of the people since the people settled there. Things were fine in the two-language country until someone decided everyone needed to speak English to be Canadian. English was forced into the school system and kids in Quebec started failing classes. But the people of Quebec fought back, stood up for their cultural heritage and kept their language. Also, many, many countries have multiple-language governments. Off the top of my head, New Zealand has preserved the Maori language, Ecuador translates all government proceedings into Quechua and India, the mother of all multi-language countries, is doing ok these days. Besides, as English is the global language, pretty much every country in the world has to translate all important government documents into English. But we’re not even close to a multi-language culture. English wins. So quit stressin. Thu, 18 Jun 2009 11:20:08 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/40994 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/41001 Liz, Your example of why you use the term “undocumented immigrant” doesn’t hold up. I wouldn’t refer to the person who stole my car by using the term “illegal” as that adjective to the word “person” isn’t appropriate. An individual can’t be “legal” or “illegal” without some context to a law. The status of the person in relation to the law is what the word “legal” applies to. In the case of the car, it would be the status of being the legal owner or not. Thus the term “Undocumented owner” being so stupid as the person is obviously a car thief. Thus a person, in terms of our immigration law, can be either a LEGAL alien(or immigrant) or and ILLEGAL alien(or immigrant) depending on if that person follows the law or not. You use the term “undocumented” to try to sugar coat this and make the people who obviously broke the law feel as if they did nothing wrong. It is a feel good semantic word game and, since you seem like in intelligent person, please don’t insult our intelligence by pretending it’s anything but that. You are using it so you don’t offend your immigrant friends but what you don’t realize is that in appeasing them you are insulting the heck out of the people who followed the rules to get here. As far as my being taught English by my parents….they are, sadly, a rarity in today’s Mexican community. There are far too MANY people who simply have the attitude “I don’t need to learn English, let them learn Spanish.” I’ve seen it more times than I can count. My parents refused to have me use the crutches this society provides immigrants(both legal and illegal) in terms of providing bi-lingual education in schools, govt forms printed in Spanish, etc. There attitude was “This country owes you nothing, you learn it’s language and it’s customs are you won’t succeed.” Finally, I don’t think anyone here has a problem with speaking any languages besides English either at home or in public…after all this is American and you are free to do so. I think the problem is having tax dollars(my tax dollars) go towards the printing of forms in multiple languages(this happens at every level of govt and cost real money). I’m against anything done by the govt the helps people live in their little enclaves without ever having to learn the language. In the end, that isn’t helping them, it hurts them. Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:45:53 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/41001 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/41014 Well, Roberto, I’m sorry the aggression in my language isn’t up to your vindictive standards. Call it a draw? I’ll tell my immigrant friends you say buenos dias if you tell tus papas que le digo como estan. As for your other points, I stand by my my previous arguments. But you make a good argument. Thu, 18 Jun 2009 22:21:05 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/41014 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/41076 Yo ya estoy hasta la madre De que me pongan sombrero Escuche entonces cuando digo No me llames frijolero Y aunque exista algun respeto No metamos las narices Nunca inflamos la moneda Haciendo Guerra a otros paises Te pagamos con petroleo e interes es nuestra deuda Mientras tanto no sabemos Quien se queda con la feria Aunque nos hagan la fama De que somos vendedores De la droga que sembramos Ustedes son consumidores Coro: Don’t call me gringo, You fuckin beaner stay on your side of that goddamn river don’t call me gringo, You beaner. No me digas beaner, Mr. Puñetero Te sacaré un susto por racista y culero. No me llames frijolero, Pinche gringo puñetero.———(chingao) Now I wish I had a dime for every single time I’ve gotten stared down For being in the wrong side of town. And a rich man I’d be if I had that kind of chips lately I wanna smack the mouths of these racists Podras imaginarte desde afuera, Ser un mexicano cruzando la frontera Pensando en tu familia mientras que pasas Dejando todo lo que tu conoces atras Tuvieras tu que esquivar las balas De unos cuantos gringos rancheros Les seguiras diciendo good for nothing wetback? y tuvieras tu que empezar de cero Now why don’t you look down to where your feet is planted That U.S. soil that makes you take shit for granted If not for Santa Ana, just to let you know That where your feet are planted would be Mexico Sat, 20 Jun 2009 10:42:50 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/41076 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/41429 Have a good weekend!!!!!!! Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:16:42 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/41429 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/41483 Have a great week!!!!!! Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:31:24 -0400 http://statenews.com./index.php/comment/view/41483