http://statenews.com “Change we can believe in” and “Yes we can” were some of the slogans used in propelling President-elect Obama, D-Ill., into the White House. Indeed, his win was both convincing and historic. However, what does Obama’s presidency mean for racism? Is racism in fact eradicated? What is the relationship between Sen. Obama being elected and the eradication of structural racism? en-us Gryphon 2.2.3b-tsn (woodward)/Foundry5 Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:29:43 -0500 webmaster@statenews.com http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27864 Good article. I think a lot of white people voted for him because Obama never brings up any African American issues. A lot of white people like that and feel that Obama being president will cause black people to look up to him as a person to try to be like. “BARACK OBAMA — White Power in Black Face“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALXhG1o620g Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:42:17 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27864 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27867 These are good questions, good perspective. Obama’s victory is a powerful symbol of white America’s potential to overcome its long-held racism against black people. However, we should not mistake symbolic change with structural change. Schools are still segregated and seperate and unequal, cops still racial profile blacks and latinos, minorities are still denied jobs based on race, white supremacy/privilege is still taught to white children (and college students) within every facet of American life. I don’t think Obama will bring significant change to the black community. He intentionally avoids race matters as to not upset his white supporters. Obama will improve conditions for blacks — one hopes — only in those areas that overlap with white desires (i.e., health care, ending the war, etc.). That’s a good start, but what happens in a crisis impacting mostly blacks? (i.e., Katrina, or police racial profiling and brutality) Time will tell. Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:33:44 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27867 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27888 Ok so you believe white people voted for him because they believed in his ideas and policies. Well them please tell me….how many blacks voted for him for the same reason? Not many I would believe because I watched during election time how many areas with large populations of blacks turned out in record numbers to vote for him. Don’t tell me that real change is needed when a large percentage of blacks that voted for him only voted because he was black. If he was a white man with the same ideas would black voters have turned out in record breaking numbers to vote for him? I don’t think so. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 00:42:44 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27888 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27895 For Kyle Mays it is. People like Kyle need to perpetuate racism or else they will have nothing to talk about or no career praying off the innocent Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:21:08 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27895 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27899 The point of the article was about the eradication of structural racism and whether or not Senator Obama is prepared to do so or even willing to. Whether or not Black people voted for Senator Obama for the same reasons as whites has no relationship to the point of this article because Black people are not the racists, as Malcolm X once stated. I, Kyle Mays, do not perpetuate racism. It is the structures of this capitalist society that does as well as the apathy of white America. The silencing on conversations regarding the savagely unequal schools in this country, the prison industrial complex that disproportionately effect Blacks and Latinos, the killing of unarmed Black men, and situations like Hurricane Katrina are part of the symptoms that perpetuate racism, but not the root of the problem. Capitalist democracy is the main problem, not those who refuse to silence the conversation on race and racism. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:53:44 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27899 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27904 The two responses above Kyle’s are so stupid they do not warrant a response. No wonder republicans lost this election cycle. MSU needs to ratchet up its critical thinking skills training :) Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:04:21 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27904 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27908 You have to be a complete idiot to deny racism exists, you fall in the column with the holocaust deniers. Racism is as prevalent today as it was 40 years ago, but now its more PC to hide it. Otherwise why would you question african americans voting for a black man and not just a democrat. Minorities typically vote for democrats over republicans anyways and insinuating they are not intelligent enough to make that distinction is insulting. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 05:41:37 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27908 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27916 “Capitalist democracy is the main problem” Your revolution is over, Mr. Mays. Condolences! The bums lost. My advice to you is to do what your father did. Get a job, sir! Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:18:32 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27916 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27917 “Minorities typically vote for democrats over republicans anyways and insinuating they are not intelligent enough to make that distinction is insulting.” Which is kind of ironic given it was the dems who were the most fervent racists. Check out the percentage in both parties who voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1968. The democrats want to keep minorities perpetually poor and dependent on government because it equals more votes for them. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:19:58 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27917 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27918 You’re just looking for a hand-out, like every other bum in this … Are you employed, sir? You don’t go looking for work like that do you? On a weekday? Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:21:58 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27918 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27923 from my life, then I as I read this, I realized it was another whiney letter to the editor from Mr. Mays. When is it that people like Mr. Mays will realize that this country is not about equality for all, but equality of opportunity for all? Obama had a pretty common, everyday upbringing. He decided he wanted to go into law, worked hard to do so and got into a great school. He decided he wanted to get into politics, worked hard, and was successful. He decided he wanted to run for president, worked hard, and was eventually elected. His story, while not putting the final nail in racism’s coffin, has illustrated that our country does allow opportunity for minorities. Whether an individual minority (or white person, for that matter) rises to this opportunity is in their hands. In an effort to point to the “structural racism” he claims still exists, he states, “One can go to the south side of Chicago or the east side of Detroit to look and see. Based upon the rhetoric of his campaign, poor black, Latino and Native Americans will continue to suffer the injustices of this so-called democracy.” That doesn’t speak to racism, it speaks to poverty. Why don’t you take a trip to Oscoda, Rogers City, the U.P., or rural appalachia and look and see for yourself. See, I can point out regions where a disproportionate percentage of the population lives in poverty and is largely occupied by a particular race (in this case caucasion), too! Does this mean that we have structural racism against whites? Of course not! And to the poster who parroted this gem, “racism is as prevalent today as it was 40 years ago,” you have got to be flat-out delusional. Can you honestly look around you and say that? Bottom line, for racists like Kyle Mays, they will hide behind their cries of racism as long as there is a single white male making more than any minority person or female (never mind the litany of other reasons there might be for a pay difference between any two individuals.) It is easier than actually working to seize the opportunities that this country offers…to everyone. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:53:27 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27923 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27926 “Kyle Mays African American and African studies graduate student” Since when did African American become a title?? Why doesn’t the State News publish “Caucasian American” or “Asian American” under anybody else’s letters. Why does Kyle need to point out he is black in his title (and black isn’t capitalized as it is not a proper title)? Also, hate to break it to you, but black people are kinda racist- such as making groups such as the Black Caucus or Black Poets Society, etc. and then not allowing other races to join. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:59:34 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27926 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27928 if i spent 6 years getting a worthless degree like kyle i’d want to perpetuate this nonsense too Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:01:56 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27928 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27932 “Capitalist democracy is the main problem….” So if the real problem is a capitalist democracy why does it even matter who is president. Obama was elected by a capitalist democracy and unless he decides to trample over the Constitution and replace our democracy with something different, i.e. socialism, fascism, or communism, he and every other president we will have in this country will be democratically elected into a capitalist society. According to your comments the only way we as a country turn from racism is to embrace the ideals of the USSR and the People’s Republic of China which were/are no better off than we, in fact they are worse, in terms of who they have discriminated against in there past. I do not deny that racism still exists in this country, and it is a terrible scar on our history, but I think you need to get off your high horse, stop the pity party, and start being part of the solution. Your comments only further drive a wedge between people in a country who, I believe, are truly trying to move past racism. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:12:44 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27932 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27933 To Uhh…, I assume he is a graduate student in both African American studies and African studies. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:14:40 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27933 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27937 You have two options. Option 1: everyone gets the same and nobody has a chance to change their position in life. We all line up every day for our bread and water rations Option 2: Everyone has the chance to succeed and improve thier lot in life. Some will fail, some want to fail or do nothing. Those that bust their asses, have a better chance at succeeding. I choose option 2 because I came from a broken home in Detroit (the glorious East Side you mention) and with option 2, I had a shot of atleast making it. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:34:11 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27937 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27938 Top 5 Reasons Kyle Mays has no credibility: 5. He claimed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 were not effective. 4. “Capitalist democracy is the main problem” 3. “poor black, Latino and Native Americans will continue to suffer the injustices of this so-called democracy.” No concern for poor whites. 2. He calls America a “so-called democracy” a week after a convincing win in a democratic election by an African American. 1. “I … do not perpetuate racism.” Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:35:08 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27938 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27948 Racism is dead. It has been replaced by a sort of culturalism and classism. If you wear dreadlocks, white or black, you will be discriminated against. If you grew up in a poor neighborhood, you will be discriminated against. If you have a “accent” you will be discriminated against. If you were to describe the childhood of Barack Obama without his race described to you… I bet you would not identify it as a typical* African American experience. *If you can ascribe a typical upbringing to someone. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 10:32:08 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27948 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27955 I was wondering…I agree with your comment, and your last point is dead on. As long as you or I earn more than a minority, racism will exist in Kyle’s mind. And Kyle, I hate to break it to you, go anywhere in the world and you’ll find discrimination or racism. Name me one country in this entire world where some form of discrimination has NOT taken place. And if you haven’t figured it out, Kyle writes these kinds of letters every few months bringing in a pithy quote from an obscure scholar. To me it basically means he’s parroting something out of the latest book he had to read for a class. He occasionally makes decent points but really he is nothing more than the John Bice or Drew Winter of racism letters/columns. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 10:43:00 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27955 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27962 To the poster that said my response was so stupid it didn’t deserve a response I’d like for you to get your head out of your a**. If you honestly think that some black people didn’t go out to vote for Obama just because he was black then you are clearly living in a fantasy world. As someone who followed the presidential race closely and watched numerous news reports on black voters it’s clear that some black voters were swayed solely on the color of Obama’s skin. Examples….rap star T.I who at 26 says that this is the first time he ever voted. Do you really think he voted for the first time ever because he agreed with Obama’s policies? Or how about the 106 year old black woman in Florida who was also voting for the first time in her life. She stated that she wanted to see a “colored man” elected president before she died. I’m sorry if you think that I’m wrong but this kind of thinking is exactly why people were showing up at polls in record breaking numbers to vote in largely urban areas with high populations of black people living there. It wasn’t about who was the better candidate it was about making history and electing the first “black” president. I hope you think about this when your wealth is being redistributed to help all those who believe that they are entitled to government handouts over getting a job. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:07:30 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27962 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27966 I have to admit it, I enjoy the comments by MSUAlumn2001. I wish that I could talk to you in person as you seem to have some intellectual capacity. However, when you talk about discrimination and racism, you are conflating the terms. There has always been discrimination and racism, but they are not in fact the same. Racisms prevalence began with the rise of capitalism in order to justify slavery and colonialism. And is Frantz Fanon really an obscure scholar? Just because you have not read him that does not make him obscure. If you are into existentialism, colonial studies, Black studies, philosophy, etc. you would know who Fanon is. Check his book out “Black Skin, White Masks and The Wrethced of The Earth. To Mark: How in fact is racism dead when it is tied to capitalism? I have nothing against poor whites; they are an oppressed group as well. However, history shows us that skin color can be a major indicator of success. I did not claim that the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act were unsuccessful, I claimed that they were symbolic. If not, why is it that economic indicators for Blacks are getting worse? No one ever talks about how schools are savagely unequal. If this country was democratic, every child regardless of color or socioeconomic background would be given equal resources and not to mostly privileged, white suburbs. We do not need to embrace the ideals of the USSR or The People’s Republic of China, for they never had capitalism and are in fact not actually communist or socialist. They are state capitalist, so that point is moot. You cannot move past racism in thoughts alone or on an individual basis. Racism has real material conditions tied to it. Unless those conditions are taken care of, racism will continue. If these were all taken care of, I would stop writing about race, but until then, as Malcolm X stated, no justice, no peace! African American Studies was given a title way back in 1968 and San Francisco State. This is a long history but if you would like to have a lesson, please let me know. Further, there is a such thing as Asian American Studies. There is a such thing as Latino studies. There is Whiteness studies, where students can learn about how white people have white privilege, etc. In essence, these minority fields of inquiry were created by what scholars call the sin of omission, whereas they were left out. If they were not left out of certain disciplines, they would not be needed. Black people are not racist by creating niches of their own. These were created as a sort of protectorate for Black students as a way to express themselves on an all white campus. Again, you would have to do some research or reading to know this. I apologize I was wondering but a quick point of clarification: structural racism effects people of color; that is, in predominantly Black and Latino, and Native American areas of occupancy. I do not deny that poor whites suffer, but that is more specifically capitalism. Whites may experience prejudices or ethno-centrism but not racism. I hope this is clear. I do appreciate the somewhat intellectual engagement from you all. At least some of you have moved past overtly racist, claims with no proof. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:12:27 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27966 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27974 Somebody get Mr. Mays another shovel. He’s gonna need one to keep digging himself deeper into this hole. I’ve never heard someone argue so desperately from a position of victimization. “structural racism effects people of color; that is, in predominantly Black and Latino, and Native American areas of occupancy. I do not deny that poor whites suffer, but that is more specifically capitalism. Whites may experience prejudices or ethno-centrism but not racism” Right, I’m a fat man. Structural anti-fattyism discriminates against me, and I think the government needs to create programs to eliminate that structural anti-fattyism. Why should we have to be subjected to small airplane seats, more expensive clothes, and discrimination in employment? No one else has to go to specialty stores to buy clothes. Noboddy else is forced to buy 2 plane tickets for 1 trip. See how easy it is to create a victim class and then justify it? It amazes me how Kyle May’s and others of his ilk act like they have a monopoly on injustice and suffering, that their “oppression” is more critical to address than other groups, while acting like they are saints, with no role in continuing divisiveness. Why don’t we work on eliminating structural gender biases? Oh wait, an overwhelming majority of black voters in California expressed their prejudice by voting to ammend the state constitution to prohibit same sex couples from marrying. Quit acting like your $hit don’t stink, too. “Black people are not racist by creating niches of their own. These were created as a sort of protectorate for Black students as a way to express themselves on an all white campus.” This statement may have applied 40,50, or 60 years ago. How is it that you can argue that mainstream society (whites) need to be more inclusive of minorities while simultaneously saying it is acceptable for specific minority groups to self-segregate and exclude others? How is that not, on its face, racist? It is statements like these that make people suspicious of your motives. You can’t argue that you are for equality, while promoting patently unequal practices. As an exercise to test your statement above, I took a quick tour of Morehouse’s and Grambling’s website (historically black colleges.) Surprise, surprise, I found not 1 single “white poets society” or any other caucasion based group. And there is no way you can realistically argue that MSU is less welcoming to minorties than these historically black colleges are to white students. Now, I have neither the inclination or time to review every historically black college’s student organizations, but I’m pretty confident that you wouldn’t find a single officially recognized whites only group at any of them. How can you justify that? Face it, Kyle, you’re a racist. You have no desire in seeing equality. I think that you would honestly be terrified by a society that truly was racism free, because then you’d have to find some other excuse to hide your personal inadequacies and failures behind. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:45:10 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27974 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27975 I am a racist. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:45:11 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27975 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27976 People posting that racism does not exist, or is not the result of institutions, are – as another poster put it – like Holocaust deniers, sick and delusional. During the presidential election poll, after poll, after poll, pointed to great expanses of this great country of ours that said they would not or were reluctant to vote for Obama because of his race. And this was even amongst white working-class Democrats! But more significantly, as Obama pointed out in his speech on race this summer, the 1954 Brown decision was in fact a failure, as the overwhelming majority of American public schools remain deeply segregated and unequal based on race. Black kids are twice as likely to be expelled or suspended from school than white kids GUILTY OF THE SAME KINDS OF OFFENSES! Blacks and Latinos receive harsher sentences than their White counterparts guilty of the same crimes! African Americans qualified or more qualified for jobs are at highest risk of being discriminated against if employers are able to determine race in advance. White people even discriminate against Blacks based on the sound of one’s accent and the “whiteness” or “blackness” of one’s name! In places like New York City and Milwaukee, African American males looking for working have an unemployment rate of 50% — and that’s among those Blacks with degrees, skills, training, etc. commensurate with their White compatriots. This is the meaning of institutionalized racism. It’s not in Kyle’s head. If you think that white racism today is a matter of imagination, tell that to the young white lady who tried to join the Klan this past week, and was then shot to death by the racist scum when she tried to back out. Tell that to the young Latino tattoo artist in Manhattan who was beaten and sodomized with a car antenna by New York City police officers (like the Haitian immigrant Abner Louima in 1997, who received similar treatment with a broken broomstick). Tell that Derrick Bell, Amadou Diallo, and the untold number of African American men murdered by police officers each year. Kyle Mays is not responsible for white terrorism and laws and institutions that discriminate and oppress. White people bear the responsibility for this – either through active participation or passive acceptance of racist laws, policies, and institutional practices. The most vicious aspect of American racism is not just its existence, but also its denial. White privilege allows for people to opine mindlessly, ignorantly I just hope that African Americans don’t think that Obama’s recent victory is their own. As we can see from the messages on this forum, the battle for racial justice continues, in fact, it has only just begun. For those on the right (and left) who engage in that activity George Bush and Sarah Palin consider unnecessary called reading, I suggest checking out this short article, “Structural Racism and American Democracy” www.columbia.edu/cu/ccbh/souls/vol3no1/vol3num1art1.pdf Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:55:05 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27976 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27978 Nothing will ever be enough for the African American population. It doesn’t matter what is done or how time changes, you will always think whites owe you something. Let me just make this very clear: I don’t owe you a thing. There will never be complete equality across the board. There will always be ignorant people (whites and blacks) who will have issues with the other race. You cannot expect everyone to completely understand your side, and you can only ask for handouts and sympathy for so long. Stop complaining, and be happy with how far our nation has come. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:55:40 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27978 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27980 My IQ level just sunk 10 points after reading Mr. Quick’s post. MSU should raise its standards. Writing teachers need to do a better job, lest MSU lose its accreditation for graduating degree-carrying imbeciles. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:58:31 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27980 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27982 Nobody asked you for a damn thing — who the hell are you? The keeper of all things white? Black people got this far by fighting for equal rights, the same rights you enjoy as a white person but are apparently offended that African Americans would expect the same. Kyle’s point, I believe, is that the election of Obama does not change the reality of millions of African Americans attending underfunded schools or shut out of the labor market based on race. Handouts my ass; Black people have and will continue to fight for freedom and equality. Get the the way, we’ll fight you, too! Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:05:14 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27982 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27983 What Kyle Mays and State of Denial are doing is confusing individual acts with institutional acts, and racism with classism. Are there racists (sxists, homophobes, mysoginists, etc.)in this country? Absolutely. Do these individuals function within institutions like police forces, and HR departments? Yup. Does that mean the institution is racist? Nope. Once controlled for socio-economic status, the disparities State of Denial references are largely resolved. It isn’t about racism, it is about classism and access to social capital. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:15:47 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27983 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27984 Do you want the white people to move back into the inner cities that have been destroyed. You can move to the suburbs too. Are the white people are just moving along the road of success looking the disenfranchised black people (or latino, native american) laughing at you. No, they are saying, come on lets go. Its tough, your going to have bust your butt and I can not guarentee anything, but lets move. All I here is, help. Nobody helped me. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:19:08 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27984 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27985 So for every white racist cop story, i am sure we can give you one that is the other way around. I don’t deny racism in this country as long as you can say blacks,African Americans, colored or what ever you need to be called this week are also just as guilty of treating whites differently than they do blacks. this country gives EVERYONE that wont allow blocked doors to stop them, the greatest gift of all…success. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:21:19 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27985 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27986 By the way, can somedbody please point out to me what rights and privileges are being institutionally denied to african americans? I think Kyle Mays is a prime example of the opportunities available to African Americans. He is a graduate student at a major research institution. How has white privilege or institutional racism oppressed him? It looks like he took advantage of the opportunities available to him. I’m guessing he even overcame some challenges to get where he is. How is that any different than anyone else’s experience of personhood? It’s just too bad he wastes that opportunity spewing nonsense. I bet when he goes to get a real job after graduating, and gets turned down, it’ll be because he’s black, not because he is 99% similar to every other person who struggles to find a good job. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:23:33 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27986 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27988 John the baptist, very well said. Instead of bi-atching about the myriad of ways you’re being oppressed (real or imagined,) why not take some of that energy and put it towards making something of yourself. Sure beats sitting around waiting for a hand out or hand up and feeling sorry for yourself. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:27:41 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27988 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27989 To respond to a few comments: First, to MSUAlumn2001: By calling Frantz Fanon an “obscure scholar,” you only expose your own ignorance. Fanon is widely known and regarded as one of the leading scholars on colonization and colonial oppression, as well as race relations. Also, just because racism exists in other parts of the world does not make it acceptable here. We claim to be an advanced industrialized nation, but the ghettos of our largest cities are bastions of poverty and violence and are largely populated by minority races. Seeing this, along with the wage gap, continual police profiling and brutality against African Americans, and horrific response to Hurricane Katrina, it is impossible to deny the presence of structural racism in America today. To Top 5: Please learn to read. Nowhere did Kyle claim that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Voting Rights Act of 1965 were ineffective. He simply pointed out that these were symbolic pieces of legislation that failed to fully achieve their objectives. Certainly they made a difference in American culture by extending previously unheld rights to African Americans. However, the fact that racism and discrimination still exists today means that such legislation did not meet its full objective. To Mark: Racism is absolutely not dead. The classism that you say has replaced racism is tied directly to racism, which is explained by Kyle’s argument regarding capitalism as an oppressor. I was happy to see Barack Obama elected, and I hope he can truly change the plight of African Americans in this nation. Until he does, though, his victory in the presidential election will be largely symbolic. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:27:50 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27989 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27990 We have a new #1 for the Top 5 reasons Kyle Mays has no credibility: “There is Whiteness studies, where students can learn about how white people have white privilege, etc.” Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:31:55 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27990 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27991 Good to see there are fellow comrades here. Down with capitalism! By promoting the ideals of opportunity, we all know capitalism is, in fact, oppressive. Let us forge together to bring down these capitalist pigs! Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:33:27 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27991 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27992 I find it funny whites are blamed for the mess of katrina…..who was the mayor? Ohhh yeah he was black….A failure also, but it was the whites fault…. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:36:12 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27992 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27993 What can Obama do to help the black people out. He can give them money, are they going to use that wisley? He is the president of the USA, not the black people. Why are the ghettos of our largest cities filled with minority races (by the way, there are more poor white people in this country than black/latino/native american combined)? Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:38:49 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27993 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27995 Hey, quit oppressing me. My poor grammar and typos are a result of the institutionalized anti-fattyism of which I spoke. My fingers are too fat to type on a standard keyboard, which puts me at a competitive disadavantage against the oppressive thinnies. I will not rest until society has addressed this injustice! Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:45:51 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27995 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27996 When someone says, “This huricane is going to destroy the city, please leave” and you don’t, you have to look in the mirror. Doesn’t anybody have survival mode anymore. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:46:47 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/27996 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28001 “When someone says, “This huricane is going to destroy the city, please leave” and you don’t, you have to look in the mirror. Doesn’t anybody have survival mode anymore.” But that would require personal responibility, which is completely incompatible with structural racism and white privilege. If it is YOUR fault, how can you blame someone else? Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:59:36 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28001 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28003 Holy yit, can’t this racist ever find anything else to write about? Okay we get it, blacks are opressed and it’s all the evil white man’s fault. Maybe if you can find 20 more ways to blame someone else for the elevated crime rates, elevated rates of imprisonment, decreased education rates, increased use of the welfare system, increased teen pregnancy and more, then we can all fix the problem. Next week Kyle is going to be writing about how the federal government needs to send out a repatriation check to every black citizen to some how fix something that happened 10 generations before he was even alive. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:02:28 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28003 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28005 These same whiners voted Marian Berry back in after he was caught on tape smoking crack with hookers…..But i know.. it was the whites fault…I wonder if Elliot Spitzer could get re-elected haha Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:04:31 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28005 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28013 Hey Kyle maybe you didnt get the memo… EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED!!!!!! OBAMA DID IT!!!! WE CHANGED!!!!! Cel-e-brate good Obama! c’mon! It’s Obama Obama! Who Let the Obama Out!! Woof Woof Woof Woof Hey obama you so fine, you so fine you blow my mind. Hey Obama, Hey Obama! YEAH OBAMA….ITS CHANGE…..EVERYTHING HAS FUCKING CHANGED!!!! Everything is Different now!! CHANGE!!!!!! We don’t have to to crap from these rich fat cats anymore! It’s ok everything has changed. You know what OBAMA said “ YES WE CAN!” EVERYTHING HAS FUCKING CHANGED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:40:01 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28013 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28015 I just read up on myself since I never heard of it. Interesitng that I spent only 1 year (my dying year) inside the US. All of my writings occured while I was Algeria and I helped a communist get elected into power (Aimé Césaire). Ahh, a great writer indeed I was. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:57:10 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28015 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28020 the old man said take any rug in the house Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:34:26 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28020 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28022 Fellow Comrades?…WTF, are we in a fist fight here or trying to form an alliance. You are the problem that society is dividing. A bigger reason that we can’t work together. This is still one nation, right? Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:49:46 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28022 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28024 Maybe the Katrina victims did not have means of transportation to evacuate or maybe they had nowhere to evacuate to. Maybe they were hoping to save their houses that were likely either not insured or not insured with a policy that would cover hurrican or flooding damages. Should they have been smarter about their insurance? Probably, but as products of a horrific New Orleans School system they probably didn’t get much of an education. Don’t you think that they would have loved to drive away and stay with a relative or a hotel? Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:59:52 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28024 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28025 I guess your right it was the whites fault we didn’t give them all cars to drive away in and we didn’t give them all hotels to stay in or we didn’t provide them with flood insurance….But didn’t that great mayor they have waste buses on the rich hotel visitors??What color was he? You know the one that wants a chocolate city…..But hes not racist.He can’t be, cause he doesn’t have power…..oppps sorry yes he does. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:07:52 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28025 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28033 Clayton County, Georgia. The black led Board of Education lost their accreditation for the entire county’s schools. Their unethical deals were discovered and they still refused to step down. So, the kids who did well in school and could go to college are having a hard time because they graduated from a high school with no accreditation. How sad that they did this to their “future”. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:29:27 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28033 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28035 Dam- I never said it was white people’s fault, I was responding to the poster’s overly simplistic view of the situation of those who became stranded in New Orleans. Oh and pointing to the actions of the mayor hardly proves institutional racism had nothing to do with the tragedy. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:32:30 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28035 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28038 Chris Listen my point is and always be there are people like Kyle that prey on race relations to get them selves ahead. Thats what is the problem today.People like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton make a living off race division and never want to see America united.It drives me nuts when i see blacks follow these losers and listen to them blame everyone else for their problems BUT what really is the cause.Them selves!Its called personal responsibility! You have kids? Take care of them! You want a job? There out there but you have to work hard when you get one to get a head.Good old fashion hard work is what it takes..not entitlements that some think they should have. Thats what made this country great. When immigrants came to this country years ago there was discrimination to all who came here. Hell some polish people had to change their names to get away from it. BUT they never cried about it,they worked harder and never gave up.They never cried they wanted entitlements. They worked 80 hours a week and never complained.Minorities today feel a need for entitlements to succeed.thats because their own leaders are misleading them.Making them believe they can’t succeed without them to show them the way. Its a sad day when i see this happening. Pull yourself up by the bootstraps and knock on another door,sooner or later that door will open.Then its up to YOU what you do with it. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:52:44 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28038 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28044 Maybe Kyle, Jackson and Sharpton are simply trying to get ahead and maybe they don’t want a United America, the evidence to the contrary notwithstanding. It doesn’t make racism any less real or any less of a problem. Let’s stop pretending that some poor black kid in Detroit Public School has the same opportunity as some kid from Grosse Pointe or Birmingham. Sure theoretically they could both become President or a doctor or lawyer, but the odds are overwhelmingly stacked against the DPS student (regardless of race). Let’s also stop pretending this is the same sort of society as the immigrants encountered. You can’t just set up a fruit and vegetable stand or buy some land on the cheap or any of the other ways uneducated immigrants obtained wealth back in the day. Now you need wealth to create wealth and you certainly need an education. That is perhaps the biggest problem I have with our present society. The disparity in educational systems from place to place is unbelievable. This isn’t to say that hard work can’t help someone overcome the difficulties an individual will face. Nor is it to say that people are not responsible for the position they find themselves in. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:09:38 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28044 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28045 I agree that blacks can only ask for sympathy and support for so long. I’m tired of having to look around before I say something, afraid that I will offend someone, when I hear black people shouting “Cracker this, Cracker that” all the time. And I can’t say a thing? How exactly is that fair? I’m not racist, I’m really not. I actually have black family, and they’re decent people who understand that THEY are the only ones who can make anything happen for them. They don’t ask for apologies or hand-outs. Equality is not just one-sided, and I think any race should recognize that before complaining again. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:24:20 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28045 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28047 “It doesn’t make racism any less real or any less of a problem. Let’s stop pretending that some poor black kid in Detroit Public School has the same opportunity as some kid from Grosse Pointe or Birmingham.” I don’t think that anyone would disagree that there are disparities in access to quality education, healthcare, employment, whatever across this country. But to argue that it is race based is ridiculous. It is based on socio-economic-status rather than race. Poor people, irrespective of race, definitely don’t have the same access to better themselves or their position in life as wealthy folks. But it is easier to divide people along racial lines, because you don’t have to think about it. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:38:45 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28047 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28048 I think it’s funny that a post like this could rattle so many people in this way…We went from calling authors “obscure”,to the ad hominem tu quoque fallacy of saying, you too, Kyle, are racist!! to a fat guy complaining about inflation (no pun intended), to Katrina…. I think Kyle’s post is educational and mindful. Let’s not be confused by the symbol of an African American man in the presidential seat by believing that his slogan, “change we can believe in” will ‘decrease’ or ‘eradicate’ racism in America. While the roots of racism due lie its capitalistic foundations, I don’t think the president elect holds the key to make everyone treat everyone equally. Our country thrives on the inequality of gender and race, and most importantly the even distribution of poverty among these groups. As far as the voting goes,.. The race between Obama and McCain was really close, as expected, at ~ 52%:48%. Why? Not because America was propelled by and whole-heartedly believed in Obama’s campaign slogan..but because we live in a country who’s faulty ‘democratic’ two-party system forces people to choose between the lesser of two evils. Some whites voted for McCain because they didn’t want to see a black person in office, others voted for Obama because they couldn’t stand that if McCain died before his presidential term ended, our foreign policy awareness officer Palin would stand as our leader by default. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:47:46 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28048 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28051 This is interesting too…http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=96953415 Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:22:13 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28051 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28056 Kari, while I admit I’m ignorant on who Fanon is, I bet a significant amount of Kyle’s readers didn’t know who he was either. He’s well known in one specific area of study. To the majority that makes him obscure! It’d be like me quoting Linus Pauling for something. Only a few would even know who I’m talking about…thus making it an obscure reference! Additionally, if you really think about it Kyle, racism and race are man made constructs. It’s solely a way to classify a human on basic looks…no more than you call one breed of dog a Retriever and one a Poodle. They’re still both the same species. So really racism and discrimination really aren’t different. And really, I don’t think capitalism truly started racism. You obviously don’t go back any further in your history than the 17th Century. Slavery and Colonialism started centuries before the rise of capitalism, which occurred in oh..about the 17th Century. I admire your enthusiasm here but unfortunately, you are taking too narrow of a view with your own race when trying to debate this. And Kari, you missed my point regarding racism everywhere. What I am trying to say is that it is HUMAN nature to look at one group differently than your own. Been that way for the entire existence of man. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:31:13 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28056 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28070 Frantz Fanon is the foundational scholar for post-colonial theory, one of the first to examine social, political, economic, and racial/ethnic conditions during and after European occupation and exploitation of non-European countries. How could you guys miss Fanon in your classes on global cultures, world history, trans-Atlantic — oh! I forgot! MSU does not require nor encourage its students to study anything outside of white supremacy and American exceptionalism. How could I forget that the curricula is white supremacist? Of course you don’t know who Fanon is. Moo you. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:00:33 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28070 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28072 Dude, uh, no. Capitalism started in Europe during feudalism in the 14th century — marked by the “crisis of the 14th century.” Racial distinctions that were established followed during European “colonization” of Africa, beginning with the Portugese in 1415. Trans-Atlantic slavery followed that same year, as European traders sought free, easily exploited labor for maximum profits. Christopher Columbus began slavery in “the New World” in 1494, on his second voyage enslaving 500 Native Americans and selling them on the European market. The same year, the Catholic church granted Columbus permission to enslave kidnapped Africans as well. Race was the distinguishing factor determining who as a slave, and who was free. Likewise, the place we now call the United States began its own version of the trans-Atlantic slave trade in 1619, and codified white supremacy and with early colonial statues in 1630. The purpose for all of this was to support a nascent capitalist economic system in which enslaved labor would provide surplus/profit for wealthy white merchants and land-holding slave owners. Racism did not precede capitalism. Racism was created to distinguish slaves from free men. Racism did not develop outside of capitalism. Racism is the very mechanism that sustains it, both then and today. Too many white people opine about isht they know nothing about. But I guess that’s the nature of white privilege, small “dubya” white supremacy. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:36:19 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28072 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28073 By the way, who gives a rat’s tail what you “think?” If you’re going to try to cite history, come with some facts. Don’t be making up isht as you go along, as you clearly do in your last email. The dates you gave were hundreds of years off, your conclusions completely ahistorical. You assume Black folks don’t history. Uh…how do you know you’re not trying to argue with a historian right now? Get it right. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:40:16 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28073 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28087 “MSU does not require nor encourage its students to study anything outside of white supremacy and American exceptionalism.” Umm, IAH 201? Anybody? Fri, 14 Nov 2008 07:42:33 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28087 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28140 Kyle Mays you sound like you sit in the church with the Obama’s listening to The Biggest biggott Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr, for over twenty years. You are so right Blacks are racist are they Jermiah Wright is just a racist Biggott. Give us a break if you believe there arent Black Racist, that’s like saying its 98 Degrees year around in East. Lansing. Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:41:43 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28140 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28142 Good letter. “If you grew up in a poor neighborhood, you will be discriminated against.” Strange, I grew up in a poorer neighborhood than many of my friends of color. I still don’t get pulled over for no reason in primarily white neighborhoods. I don’t have to fear for my life because of the color of my skin, and if a person of color calls me a cracker, honkey or other term for white people I do not feel my life is in jeopardy because those are not words which have historically accompanied, and still often do accompany, the assault and murder of people who look similar to me. My hair is never considered “too ethnic” or not professional in its natural and clean state. And if I have a criminal record, I’m still statistically more likley than my friends of color without criminal records and equivilant qualifications to be hired at a job we both apply for. et cetera. Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:29:43 -0500 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/view/28142