http://statenews.com This weekend, bears walked, danced and even rode bicycles across the floor of Breslin Center as part of the Royal Hanneford Circus. To some, the bears epitomized the image of what a circus is about — a couple of hours of wholesome family fun, dazzling acrobatic stunts and sensational animal acts. To others, the animals represented a capitalist culture gone haywire, where animal rights and morals are carelessly discarded in pursuit of the almighty dollar. en-us Foundry4 Wed, 19 Nov 2008 06:22:32 -0500 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:51:21 -0400 webmaster@statenews.com http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15330/view To add to this article, and to help quell some of the inevitable banter that will follow, we know that the circus is done for charity, but there are circuses which do not use animals that are very popular and are very willing to do work for charities. Additionally, we have been in contact with the Boys and Girls Club of Lansing, and we are working together now to ensure that the money raised in the future is from humane sources. Now, let the battle begin blog-lovers. Mon, 14 Apr 2008 00:04:04 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15330/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15331/view Lastly, we are not eco-terrorists and we are not PETA. We are an entirely positive, non-confrontational organization, and the fact that PETA euthanizes animals has nothing to do with us protesting a circus. But, we do appreciate the dissent; it continually keeps us in check. -Sean Mon, 14 Apr 2008 00:08:46 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15331/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15337/view Sean, while I respect your right to protest, I was disheartened with the way that it was done. Your “group” succeeded in unnerving a lot of families. Way to turn a family event into something that you believe they should feel bad about. Congratulations on using a video from 1999 with someone that isn’t even associated with the group anymore. Had I had more time when driving by on Friday evening, I would have gladly jumped out and engaged your group in conversation. Scaring families is a great way to bring people to your cause. Mon, 14 Apr 2008 01:05:30 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15337/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15339/view Also, you say you are not PETA, but you sure don’t mind being associated with them. That is according to your website, by the way. Mon, 14 Apr 2008 01:10:49 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15339/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15342/view Can people still be entertained by suffering? Do these “entertained people” ever consider how the animals are forced to live? Where they sleep? Eat? Defecate? Urinate? Do you not care at all? Do you realize that these poor animals, who have committed no crimes, are forced to eat, sleep, live in the same cramped cages where they urinate and defecate? They are forced to eat off the floor where they defecate and they have no choice because they are forced to be there to entertain you for 5, 10, 15 minutes. The living conditions alone for animals used in the circus is abuse … being kept in cages their entire lives, shuffled from city to city, forced to perform unnatural acts. How do you get a bear to perform? I assure you not from positive re-enforcement. How long can one be so superficial to ignore the facts of cruelty behind the use of animals in entertainment? Defending it you only dillude yourself … it does not change the facts. Mon, 14 Apr 2008 02:04:40 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15342/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15343/view Did you read anything that I said whatsoever? I hope that “you” is a general you and not directed at me. You throw quotation marks around “entertained people” as if I wrote them. I hope that you are not that ignorant. I don’t condone poor treatment of animals. I just disagree with the methods of protest. It reminds me of the anti-war protesters who hold up traffic while walking in the middle of the street. It does not get the point across. Mon, 14 Apr 2008 02:27:42 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15343/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15355/view I always find it particularly tragic when someone focuses on that whole “unnerving families” issue. If you are bringing your children to an event where the brutalizing of animals (and even if you believe that whatever video you saw was somehow outdated, as if they have stopped beating the elephants with the bullhooks and electric shocks they carry, you have to understand that the elephants lives are unnatural and cruel and simply torture to them) is carried out in the name of entertainment,then you are the one unnerving your children. Your children are being taught – by you – that it’s ok to treat an intelligent creature like a monster truck or some other inanimate object if it can be made to look funny for you. Sooner or later your kids are going to figure out that their parents just don’t have the correct values on this subject – if they haven’t already – and they are going to figure out that the world will be a better place if we respect all animals, human and otherwise. It’s unfortunate that it will not be you giving them that message, and I can understand why that bothers you – but why not get ahead of things and stop bringing them to these abusive “entertainments” yourself. Oh, and while you’re at it you might want to teach them a bit about our constitutionally protected rights to free speech – even if in exercising them we hold up traffic or make people uncomfortable for a moment. The point is to make them think. Mon, 14 Apr 2008 06:52:29 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15355/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15358/view That’s fine. Let me know where you live and I will protest something in your driveway. Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:09:57 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15358/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15360/view AMAZING work, SPAR! Way to take those animal abusers to task! Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:32:04 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15360/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15362/view Jerrod – Are you turning to violence to get your point across? Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:48:23 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15362/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15364/view Wait, what? Am I turning to violence? No, I just want to non-violently protest some injustices that I see in the world every day, and if someone doesn’t mind having to be inconvenienced by protesting, that’s where I should go. Are you turning violent? Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:58:23 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15364/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15369/view Jerrod – You seem to have a very aggressive personality. Not someone who might “non-violently” protest. Learn to take and accept criticism. Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:17:54 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15369/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15371/view Oh,poor little Reuben-boy!!You and your PETA wannabes are indeed making people think…How sad and lonely your puny lives are!!!Oh and by the way Denise..it’s DELUDE ,not DILLUDE!!!One would think that since you guys are the ones that think you hold the moral high ground,you would know how to spell the very term that sums up your entire platform.Go spike some trees!!! Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:25:51 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15371/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15373/view Are you serious? I have an aggressive personality? What is going on in here? First of all, you have no idea who I am, and I have no idea who you are. But by all means, draw conclusions based on some level-headed posts that I have made. What I am trying to get at is that upsetting and angering people is not exactly a great way to get your point across. I have no ill will towards anyone on here, but thanks for playing. I am not the fighting type. I have learned to control the situations that I am in without escalating them to violence. But if you, anonymous state news poster, think I should have my “aggressive personality” checked, how can I refuse? I’m not violent, I’m sarcastic. Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:27:05 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15373/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15383/view “That’s fine. Let me know where you live and I will protest something in your driveway.” That sounds like a threat but maybe I misinterpreted your meaning. Why is showing what happens behind the scenes of a circus inappropriate? You shouldn’t be able to attend one of these shows without knowing everything that’s going on. You should also have to tour a slaughterhouse and a factory pig farm before you can order your bacon cheeseburger. I know there will be callous jokes about that last sentence but seriously before you comment go visit one of these places. After you do that, then you have every right to laugh and tell me how wonderful your burger is. Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:04:06 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15383/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15387/view They didn’t see any animal abuse??!! Why don’t they take a second to think about where the animals are going after the performance? Right back to a small, cramped trailer or left to sway and pace neurotically at the end of a 5-foot chain under a plastic tent. There’s no pasture for these animals, they’re kept in warehouses during their winter off-season, which only last 2-3 months. Extreme confinement for a lifetime, that’s the abuse and cruelty that no animal circus can deny. Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:16:48 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15387/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15393/view Rick, that was definitely a mis-interpretation. I was being quite sarcastic at that point. I was getting at that NIMBY principle for protesters. As long as it doesn’t slow them down, it really doesn’t matter. Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:32:44 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15393/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15395/view Jarrod, the problem some seem to have with your comments is their somewhat contradictory nature. You claim to support a group’s right to protest – so long as it is done on your terms, in a manner you personally approve of, and doesn’t inconvenience anyone. Basically, that adds up to your support protests that are completely ineffective (or where you agree with the protesters’ viewpoint). That seems a little contradictory at best, un-American at worst. Free speech zones, anyone? Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:38:44 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15395/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15402/view Seriously, spell my name right. It’s right there in front of you. Done on my terms? Put yourself in the shoes of those kids walking by college kids with signs. Do you even remember what it was like to be young, or were you always this “grown-up”? I think you are missing my point. Protests that upset people are generally not effective in bringing said people to the cause of the protesting group. I never said I was the moral authority on protesting. I realize it may be difficult for someone to understand sarcasm, so I will type slower for those people. Let’s protest the anti-protesters who are protesting the protests. Also to the bacon comment, you are correct. Let’s release all pigs so they can roam the plains as they used to in the days of the wild west. Go hug a tree. I’m done here. Mon, 14 Apr 2008 11:01:39 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15402/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15405/view “You shouldn’t be able to attend one of these shows without knowing everything that’s going on. You should also have to tour a slaughterhouse and a factory pig farm before you can order your bacon cheeseburger.” I’ll get on top of visiting that factory farm and slaughterhouse right after I get back from visiting the sweatshop where my shoes were made, the refinery where the gas I bought was produced, the forest where the wood my house is built from was cut down, the rainforest where the rubber for my tires was tapped, the mines where the coal that provides me electricity was mined… But I’ll tell you what, by the time I get done personally interviewing every person (and animal) involved in everything I do and everything I consume, I can’t see where I’ll have any time left to do anything useful with my life. Excpet, of course, to post asinine and ridiculous comments on the state news forums. Mon, 14 Apr 2008 11:11:57 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15405/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15422/view Man…capitalism gone haywire…clashing interests…the State News is so like deep and stuff. Way to stick it to “the Man” guys! College students who protest stuff are so awesome…way to be involved. Tune in, Turn off, and Drop out! Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:37:03 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15422/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15424/view This post is directed at Jerrod – And although he claims to be “done”, I’m sure he still checking this. “What I am trying to get at is that upsetting and angering people is not exactly a great way to get your point across” – Does he not realize that protesting is EXACTLY the way to a point across? Think of the greatest protests in American History: Civils rights, Women’s rights, etc. Protests increase the visibility of the CAUSE – Who cares if a couple of children see some college students with picket signs? Uh. I’m pretty damn sure they won’t lose sleep over it. Protesting is the best way to GET noticed – Perhaps its the reason why the Statenews felt obligated to write an article about it. Zing! The point is, if SPAR just sat around crying about how much circus animals are being mistreated, do you really think any of their goals would get accomplished? Absolutely not. SPAR, keep doing what you do, and please, don’t let ignorant people get you down for acting upon your civil rights. Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:44:20 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15424/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15430/view animals don’t have feelings Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:07:16 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15430/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15431/view yell at a dog and see the facial expression he gives you…..animals have feelings! Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:16:14 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15431/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15447/view One of the great things about the internet is you don’t have to visit all these places to know what’s going on. You should know something about the gasoline in your car, the wood from which your house is built, the rubber of your tires, etc. Educate yourself and you may start to wonder about these things. Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:17:14 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15447/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15460/view God forbid these protesters would ever spend their time spent protesting volunteering at the Boys and Girls club or holding some sort of alternative event to raise money. Rag tag signs and criticisms spread in the State News are a great way to spread your cause. Maybe if they got a PR person they could draw more positive attention to their cause and actually make some money for their cause or other charities in the process. If your goal is to raise awareness and bring about change, do something original….and actually do something. Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:31:14 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15460/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15471/view SPAR sucks. they should be arrested for disturbing private enterprise. SPAR = just plain ol’ bad people with big time character flaws. Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:35:41 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15471/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15477/view “...arrested for disturbing private enterprise.” This is the most idiotic singular statement I’ve ever read. Complete non-sense and devoid of thought. Kudos. Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:00:19 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15477/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15481/view If these idiots of “SPAR” (funny name by the way) don’t like innocent little circuses, then they sure would hate me for fur trapping. Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:31:11 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15481/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15488/view haha Ken sucks Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:59:21 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15488/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15489/view So you mean to tell me that members of SPAR have never been to a circus as a child or ever thought about attending one? I don’t know about you, but when I was a child, circuses were innocent events. Will we soon have protestors standing outside of zoos? Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:11:56 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15489/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15498/view “SPAR sucks. they should be arrested for disturbing private enterprise.” Wow, Champ. You get less intelligent with each new thread. How DO you do that? Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:33:11 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15498/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15507/view “I don’t know about you, but when I was a child, circuses were innocent events.” When you were a child, Regan was President. Things change. Tue, 15 Apr 2008 00:16:52 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15507/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15530/view Hi Jerrod, I want to address your concern about protesting in front of children. Years ago I attended a Ringling Bros Circus in New Haven, CT with a friend and his young kids. I was disturbed watching the animals and left with a feeling of sadness but I had no idea about training methods, exploitation etc. It was just a feeling that made me very uncomfortable. Years later, my son was invited to Ringling Bros. at Madison Square Garden. We live in CT and I hadn’t taken my kids to NYC so I told my son that I didn’t like the circus because the animals didn’t seem happy but he coudl go if he wanted. Well, he went and he and his friend saw protestors outside the Garden. They watched a video and took some literature. They were so upset by what they had learned, they actually booed during the show. My son came home with a flyer to show me and told me what happened. I was shocked at what I read. He and I did some checking around, thought about the animals and the fact that they are given no choice in this, most of the elephants have been taken from the wild, from their families and they just were not deserving of this life of hell and neither were any of these animals being held captive. I am so pleased that my son at the young age of 11 was able to open his mind, think about what he was learning and act on it. Was the fun taken out of his day and his friend’s day and the parent who brought them there? You bet it was. And it was one of the best things that my son has experienced in his life. Next thing you know, I’m in Hartford, CT protesting at Ringling. It’s been 8 years now and I protest at every circus event I can. So children seeing protestors is a good thing. It might ruin your night, or someone else’s, but in the greater scheme of things, it makes the world a much better place when we are open to new ideas and will take the time to think. thank you for listening. Nancy Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:50:24 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15530/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15551/view Does anyone know if this “show” is still being held at MSU, I’d like to join efforts towards letting people really know what they are paying for. Thanks! Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:30:51 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15551/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15681/view There is a ton more I was hoping to say, but it would take much more time than I have right now. But essentially, Jerrod, I’m sorry that the world of State News blog-commenting is so frustrating. But, I very much appreciate your role as catalyst to the conversation, and I think if you and I had a chance to talk about these things in a less frustrating way (like via email) I think we would probably both learn a lot about the other’s side. I have my email address below in case you wanted to talk more one-on-one; you seem like a reasonable person who would be willing to actually hear out SPAR’s side. Nancy, well said. Though not an entirely accurate portrayal of SPAR’s protesting, I think there is a lot to learn from your story. Thank you. Julian, if you are not already, you should join our facebook group “Cruelty is note entertainment”. We send out information on there pretty regularly. Also, you can just email me personally and I can give you more information. For everyone else who had something to say and actually wanted our side of the story and not just spout out some “your whole purpose must be flawed because of this unfounded point that I just made” phrase, you can also contact me. We’re all about spreading awareness and understanding, as well as learning from people who feel otherwise. So, if you are actually interested in a discussion, feel free: Sean Cook, cooksean@msu.edu Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:47:18 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15681/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15683/view Also, thank you to everyone else who had kind words to say. It has not gone unnoticed. We really appreciate everyone’s support. Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:48:26 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15683/view http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15684/view Haha, and as I proofread my comment, I see that I put “note” instead of “not” in the group “Cruelty is not entertainment”. Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:51:21 -0400 http://statenews.com/index.php/comment/15684/view