Speakers should spark worthy discussions, not false ideas
On Tuesday, MSU’s Young Americans for Freedom brought a self-proclaimed reformed terrorist named Walid Shoebat to campus. In my opinion, bringing such controversial speakers often causes the free speech debate to resurface. While the right to free speech should be protected and promoted, especially in an academic climate, it is critical to allow all viewpoints into the discussion, and the incredibly important implications of such inflammatory speech rarely are considered.
In this instance, the content of the Shoebat speech promotes a tense climate on campus that doesn’t foster learning. Making such blanket statements as, “the Muslim community doesn’t condemn terrorism,” establishes a university atmosphere that is detrimental to all students because it promotes completely unfounded suspicion toward others. Instead of bringing speakers who adversely contribute to MSU in this way, it would be infinitely more beneficial to foster true academic discussion. This could be achieved by inviting speakers who are highly qualified to speak on such topics and to use precise language when doing so.
Instead, Shoebat’s rhetoric essentialized large groups of people, and in doing so, is counterproductive at truly addressing a legitimate concern regarding the safety of American lives because it marginalizes mainstream voices. As students at MSU, we must be aware of the implications of the presence of speakers like Shoebat on our campus. Such events should encourage us to overcome such hostility by constantly striving for a more inclusive community.
Nada Zohdy
international relations and comparative cultures and politics sophomore
Published on Sunday, March 30, 2008
Comments
eric
03/30/08 @ 10:09pm
yet it is ok to have speakers you agree with that are radical? i cant beleive people even bring this up, what arrogance. I am jewish and i support the KKK’s right to say they hate jews. why? because it doesnt bother me and i know what they say is false. the only reason someone is against free speech like in your case, is maybe the man is speaking the truth and you dont want other to know.
J. Edward Tremlett
03/30/08 @ 10:27pm
“In this instance, the content of the Shoebat speech promotes a tense climate on campus that doesn’t foster learning.”
Speakers aren’t always brought in to foster learning, nor should they be. If the university gets to determine whether a speaker is “learned” enough to speak on campus, and can deny permission based on that, they’d be set up to censor unpopular speakers, and that’s a lot more detrimental to campus learning than allowing propagandists and weirdoes to take the podium.
In fact, I’d argue that a campus needs to have such people come, as it’s a learning experience to sit there and be bombarded with BS and have to separate out the truth – what little there may be – from the lies and spin. It’s always worth asking the groups that bring such people in what the hell they were thinking (provided they can think at all) but the speakers themselves should be allowed to come and peddle their nonsense.
Speaking of nonsense, that’s not the best use of “essentialized.” “Marginalized” is probably a more accurate description of what YAF was no doubt trying to do, given their views on Islam in general.
Cooter Ginsberg
03/31/08 @ 7:58am
“ .. While the right to free speech should be protected and promoted, especially in an academic climate, it is critical to allow all viewpoints into the discussion ..”
.. except those of white, male, heterosexual Catholic Republicans, among 150,000,000,000 others who disagree with us ..
“ .. and the incredibly important implications of such inflammatory speech rarely are considered ..
HA! Here’s $125,000 of tuition dollars spent on anti-YAF actions by MSU ..
Your tuition dollars at work I
Your tuition dollars at work II
“ .. In this instance, the content of the Shoebat speech promotes a tense climate on campus that doesn’t foster learning ..”
There appears to be no empirical evidence of your statement. Izzo’s loss was more “tense,” frankly.
“ .. Instead of bringing speakers who adversely contribute to MSU in this way, it would be infinitely more beneficial to foster true academic discussion ..”
Sure. Let’s have Women’s Studies bring in some Republicans to speak, first.
“ .. This could be achieved by inviting speakers who are highly qualified to speak on such topics and to use precise language when doing so ..”
Germany tried that — “Mein Kampf.”
“ .. Such events should encourage us to overcome such hostility by constantly striving for a more inclusive community ..”
See previous, “white, male ..”
Nada
03/31/08 @ 8:23am
By Nada’s logic, if your bring in a speaker who doesn’t confirm to the liberal party-line, then he or she should be banned from campus.
I wonder if a pro-Palestine speaker came in the other day. Nada, would you have written the same article. I HIGHLY DOUBT IT.
I am so disturbed today by the way liberals act on campus. If you don’t agree with them, they try to destroy you.
Jason Van Dyke
03/31/08 @ 8:33am
Of course that has always been the case. The line towed by the liberals on this campus is simple: “If we do not agree with it, the speech should not only be prohibited but also prosecuted as a hate crime”
Whether people agree or disagree with the positions of MSU-YAF really, in the long run, doesn’t matter. In the past two years or so, the real contribution MSU-YAF has made is a demonstration of how far left student organizations behave, and specifically, their attempts to stifle free speech.
Free speech, for most, is a relatively uncontroversial topic. It’s only the really hardcore Stalinist students and organizations – the worst of the worst – that think free speech ought to be restricted at MSU. I think now, more than ever, students are starting to understand what groups like these really stand for.
Tim
03/31/08 @ 8:58am
This letter was really a thinly disguised request for censorship. You may disagree with Shoebat, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t learned. You would have been much better off writing a letter that addressed the falsities in Shoebat’s speech.
Out of curiosity, was Shoebat able to speak freely or was he shouted down? I am assuming everything went well on Tuesday or else we would have seen a YAF letter to the editor decrying leftist censorship.
J. Edward Tremlett
03/31/08 @ 9:04am
“Out of curiosity, was Shoebat able to speak freely or was he shouted down?”
Apparently, the speech went off without a hitch – hopefully because people decided to do the wise thing and just not attend. : )
Bushmaster
03/31/08 @ 9:06am
But hasn’t the intent of YAF been to bring speakers in who offend the sensibilities of even students with moderate views? Then, once a thinking person disagrees with the speaker, YAF starts crying about free speech and how oppressed “white, male, heterosexual Catholic Republicans” are. Please.
J. Edward Tremlett
03/31/08 @ 9:09am
“HA! Here’s $125,000 of tuition dollars spent on anti-YAF actions by MSU”
Okay, so it’s 125K today? Previously you’ve said it was 100K. Where are you getting these numbers from? I have a hard time believing the reports cost that much.
The rest of your comments are sloppy drivel.
Cooter Ginsberg
03/31/08 @ 9:57am
“ .. Okay, so it’s 125K today? Previously you’ve said it was 100K. Where are you getting these numbers from?”
Because I’ve actually looked at the MSU budget, Mr. Depends. And when I’ve re-done #s, I post them, Mr. Can’t-Afford-Viagra.
http://ctlr.msu.edu/COFA/FinancialStatement.aspx
“ .. The rest of your comments are sloppy drivel.”
Yo mama didn’t think so. And at least I don’t wear Depends to get myself excited, IQ-96.
Tim
03/31/08 @ 10:25am
I love that the speaker was allowed to talk in peace and YAF still complains about being silenced by the Marxist university. The State News’ only ever talks about riots and protests and YAF being oppressed, right wing bias.
Censorship is not a leftist or a rightist tactic, it’s an extremist tactic.
Debbie
03/31/08 @ 12:43pm
I love the title here. “Speakers should spark worthy discussions, not false ideas”. What in the hell is a false idea? All the ideas I have ever had seemed pretty true.
Cooter, you started off so well. Why did you have to turn around and act like a third grader? I am so disappointed.
J. Edward – “In fact, I’d argue that a campus needs to have such people come, as it’s a learning experience to sit there and be bombarded with BS and have to separate out the truth – what little there may be – from the lies and spin. It’s always worth asking the groups that bring such people in what the hell they were thinking (provided they can think at all) but the speakers themselves should be allowed to come and peddle their nonsense. “ – I completely agree.
J. Edward Tremlett
03/31/08 @ 2:25pm
“Because I’ve actually looked at the MSU budget, Mr. Depends.”
Please post the name of the document, and on which page in that document, you found that number.
Cooter
03/31/08 @ 2:43pm
Please post the name of the document, and on which page in that document, you found that number.
—-
That’s your job, Mr. K.I.A. (Know-It-All). It will require use of both your brain cells. Good luck.
J. Edward Tremlett
03/31/08 @ 2:56pm
“That’s your job, Mr. K.I.A. (Know-It-All). It will require use of both your brain cells.”
Actually, I don’t even need one – just a search function in Adobe Acrobat. And I can’t find the information on any of the relevant pdfs on that page.
That, coupled with how your willingness to post links to things has suddenly evaporated when you’re asked for specifics, is enough to assure me that you’re lying.
Please do prove me wrong, Cooter.
Wolverine
03/31/08 @ 3:00pm
Cooter, you got pwned.
bbwhine
03/31/08 @ 3:53pm
Hey, lay off the sloppy drivel comments. I dated that person and found that while sloppy the drivel part did not apply. Did you know Cooter means P—-y in Southern speak? Dang, that’s scary you actually calling yourself that for a nickname dude.
Cooter
03/31/08 @ 3:58pm
“ .. Actually, I don’t even need one ..”
Yup — and you don’t have one brain-cell. Because if you had a brain, you’d know that you have to have a degree in accounting to do those kinds of calculations. And you obviously don’t have one, pinhead.
I don’t have time to teach pinheads basic math, bookkeeping, and accounting. Just keep blathering without numbers — just like the politicians and MSM. And contribute in taking the USA into bankruptcy, ya putz.
U.S. Rep. Cooter Davenport
03/31/08 @ 4:02pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooter
“ .. Cooter Davenport, a character from the TV show The Dukes of Hazzard. Cooter was played by Ben Jones in the TV series, and by David Koechner in the subsequent cinematic version ..”
“ .. Dang, that’s scary you actually calling yourself that for a nickname dude ..”
Was it hard, spending your whole life in Farmington Hills? Durn .. that sounds boring as freakin’ heck .. awful.
J. Edward Tremlett
03/31/08 @ 4:02pm
In other words, you’re not only a liar, but a bad one at that.
Thank you for playing.
J.E.T. is a liar
03/31/08 @ 5:46pm
“ .. In other words, you’re not only a liar, but a bad one at that ..”
Do your pants catch fire daily? After lying, that is?
Second time: if you had a brain, and accounting ability, you’d know how to interpret the MSU budget. Obviously, you don’t have a brain. Get used to people with brains, laughing at your buffonish attempts to hide your weakeness.
J. Edward Tremlett
03/31/08 @ 6:25pm
And if you weren’t lying, you’d have explained exactly where in the budget the expenditure for that investigation is. But you won’t, and I’m pretty sure that’s because you can’t, because you just made up some number to try and make MSU look foolish, and weren’t counting on someone calling you on it.
You can easily end this go-around by doing what I asked you to in the first place: show us where this 100-125K expenditure is. How hard could it really be to just explain it? You don’t have to get technical or anything – just show us the math.
Ball’s in your court, Cooter. Shoot it or shut it.
J.E.T. IS A LIAR
03/31/08 @ 7:20pm
Simple question for the simpleton —
CAN J.E.T. THE LIAR DO MATH?
If not — I’m not going to do it for you, pinhead. You take a math class, first. Then come back, Einstein.
The champ
03/31/08 @ 8:46pm
point of clarification: J.Ed Trem cant take a math class b/c he’s about 55 years old, rather just creeps around on this college kid news board. weird? yes. google his name and you’ll find his weirdo website.
————————————————————————————————-
so YAF brought someone to speak that most liberals would normally like(that is, a terrorist)? so why are they upset then?
Ben Morlock
03/31/08 @ 9:03pm
Speech codes.
Censorship.
Enforced political conformity.
Hostility to diversity of opinion.
Sensitivity training.
We usually associate such things with the worst excesses of fascism and communism, not with the American universities that nurtured the free speech movement. But American higher education bears a disturbing resemblance to the totalitarian societies that are anathema to our nation’s ideal of liberty. Evan Coyne Maloney’s documentary film, Indoctrinate U, reveals the breathtaking institutional intolerance you won’t read about in the glossy marketing brochures of Harvard, Berkeley, Michigan, Yale, and hundreds of other American colleges and universities.
Don’t miss the screening of this provocative film on the campus of Michigan State University. One night only!
Date: Thursday, April 3, 2008
Time: 7:00pm – 8:30pm
Location: Computer Center Room 402
K-Brist
03/31/08 @ 10:12pm
Morlock, I remember you. You’re the music major who has tried in vain to discredit the Rev. Martin Luther King. If you hate blacks so much, please come join the YAF!!! Please, please come join the YAF!!
J. Edward Tremlett
03/31/08 @ 11:06pm
“If not — I’m not going to do it for you, pinhead. You take a math class, first. Then come back, Einstein.”
And with that, the case is closed. Cooter is either lying or trying to cover up for his own ignorance in the case.
I’m going to see if I can find out how much the report cost on my own. If and when I do, I’ll post it here, with a source.
J.E.T. IS A LIAR
04/01/08 @ 5:59am
I’m going to see if I can find out how much the report cost on my own. If and when I do, I’ll post it here, with a source.
—-
Sure. And bring back the Easter Bunny and Great Pumpkin, too — you total LYING B.S. artist.
Go ahead, suck up for the MSU administration. You’re a candidate for that job.
Pinhead.
J. Edward Tremlett
04/01/08 @ 10:25am
You know, the more you say the worse you look, right?
MSUAlum2001
04/01/08 @ 1:46pm
So Cooter or J.E.T IS A LIAR, could you please answer the question at how you came up with $125,000 for the cost of the YAF events. I am fairly skilled in Math but alas am not an accountant and don’t seem to see any breakdowns for the DPPS budget much less what they spent on policing specific events. And in all honesty that number is ridiculously high. The riot 1999 cost only about $250,000 for several police agencies and it was a hell of a lot bigger than this speech. Additionally, if you actually believe that number is that high for the event with only a few police officers, my God, how many millions are spent on a single football or basketball game? Come on Cooter/J.E.T IS A LIAR, just do the simple thing and clear it all up for us by telling us exactly where in MSU’s audit and budget we can find it. If you do that, no one will doubt you again.
"J.E.T. IS A LIAR" is a retard
04/02/08 @ 4:39pm
Only retards study accounring. There is no “math” in it except highschool sums.
You wanna take real math? Get a math, physics, or engineering degree.
J. Edward Tremlett
04/03/08 @ 8:27am
“I am fairly skilled in Math but alas am not an accountant and don’t seem to see any breakdowns for the DPPS budget much less what they spent on policing specific events.”
He’s not saying the policing of the event was 100-125K. He’s saying the REPORT they just released (which cleared CR/YAF of discrimination) cost 100-125K.
So yeah, count me as highly skeptical. I’m still trying to nail down an exact price tag. And he’s still acting in a way that is not at all conducive to my believing he’s being truthful.
Come on, Cooter – we know you’re lurking. Make with the math.