Racism not erased by Obama's win, real change still needed
(Last updated: 11/12/08 7:21pm)“Change we can believe in” and “Yes we can” were some of the slogans used in propelling President-elect Obama, D-Ill., into the White House. Indeed, his win was both convincing and historic. However, what does Obama’s presidency mean for racism? Is racism in fact eradicated? What is the relationship between Sen. Obama being elected and the eradication of structural racism?
I believe some whites voted for him because of his policies and because it helped them deal with their own racism, but it did not change the nature of structural racism. America will never be a post-racial society because it has not gotten to the root of the problem facing poor and colored people. Is Obama prepared to get to the root of the problem? Will he take the suggestion of the colonialist theoretician Frantz Fanon who said, “The prognosis is in the hands of those who are prepared to shake the worm-eaten foundations of the edifice.”
If Obama is prepared to do this, then his presidency will move from a modern day symbolic tokenism to actual “change we can believe in.” Tokenism may seem harsh, but America has already seen symbols such as the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965. How effective were those symbols? One can go to the south side of Chicago or the east side of Detroit to look and see. Based upon the rhetoric of his campaign, poor black, Latino and Native Americans will continue to suffer the injustices of this so-called democracy.
Kyle Mays
African American and African studies graduate student
Originally Published: 11/12/08 7:09pm
Phil Letten
11/12/08 8:42pmGood article. I think a lot of white people voted for him because Obama never brings up any African American issues. A lot of white people like that and feel that Obama being president will cause black people to look up to him as a person to try to be like.
“BARACK OBAMA — White Power in Black Face“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALXhG1o620g
Good Point
11/12/08 9:33pmThese are good questions, good perspective. Obama’s victory is a powerful symbol of white America’s potential to overcome its long-held racism against black people. However, we should not mistake symbolic change with structural change. Schools are still segregated and seperate and unequal, cops still racial profile blacks and latinos, minorities are still denied jobs based on race, white supremacy/privilege is still taught to white children (and college students) within every facet of American life.
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Give Me A Break
11/13/08 12:42amOk so you believe white people voted for him because they believed in his ideas and policies. Well them please tell me….how many blacks voted for him for the same reason? Not many I would believe because I watched during election time how many areas with large populations of blacks turned out in record numbers to vote for him. Don’t tell me that real change is needed when a large percentage of blacks that voted for him only voted because he was black. If he was a white man with the same ideas would black voters have turned out in record breaking numbers to vote for him? I don’t think so.
Racism=Good?
11/13/08 1:21amFor Kyle Mays it is. People like Kyle need to perpetuate racism or else they will have nothing to talk about or no career praying off the innocent
Kyle Mays
11/13/08 1:53amThe point of the article was about the eradication of structural racism and whether or not Senator Obama is prepared to do so or even willing to. Whether or not Black people voted for Senator Obama for the same reasons as whites has no relationship to the point of this article because Black people are not the racists, as Malcolm X once stated.
I, Kyle Mays, do not perpetuate racism. It is the structures of this capitalist society that does as well as the apathy of white America.
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Duh
11/13/08 4:04amThe two responses above Kyle’s are so stupid they do not warrant a response. No wonder republicans lost this election cycle. MSU needs to ratchet up its critical thinking skills training :)
MSUAlum08
11/13/08 5:41amYou have to be a complete idiot to deny racism exists, you fall in the column with the holocaust deniers. Racism is as prevalent today as it was 40 years ago, but now its more PC to hide it. Otherwise why would you question african americans voting for a black man and not just a democrat. Minorities typically vote for democrats over republicans anyways and insinuating they are not intelligent enough to make that distinction is insulting.
Jeff Lebowski (the other Jeffrey Lebowski, the millionaire)
11/13/08 8:18am“Capitalist democracy is the main problem”
Your revolution is over, Mr. Mays. Condolences! The bums lost. My advice to you is to do what your father did. Get a job, sir!
SWolf
11/13/08 8:19am“Minorities typically vote for democrats over republicans anyways and insinuating they are not intelligent enough to make that distinction is insulting.”
Which is kind of ironic given it was the dems who were the most fervent racists. Check out the percentage in both parties who voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1968. The democrats want to keep minorities perpetually poor and dependent on government because it equals more votes for them.
Jeff Lebowski (the other Jeffrey Lebowski, the millionaire)
11/13/08 8:21amYou’re just looking for a hand-out, like every other bum in this … Are you employed, sir? You don’t go looking for work like that do you? On a weekday?
I was wondering what was missing
11/13/08 8:53amfrom my life, then I as I read this, I realized it was another whiney letter to the editor from Mr. Mays. When is it that people like Mr. Mays will realize that this country is not about equality for all, but equality of opportunity for all? Obama had a pretty common, everyday upbringing. He decided he wanted to go into law, worked hard to do so and got into a great school. He decided he wanted to get into politics, worked hard, and was successful.
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Uhh...
11/13/08 8:59am“Kyle Mays
African American and African studies graduate student”
Since when did African American become a title?? Why doesn’t the State News publish “Caucasian American” or “Asian American” under anybody else’s letters. Why does Kyle need to point out he is black in his title (and black isn’t capitalized as it is not a proper title)?
Also, hate to break it to you, but black people are kinda racist- such as making groups such as the Black Caucus or Black Poets Society, etc. and then not allowing other races to join.
why so nervous?
11/13/08 9:01amif i spent 6 years getting a worthless degree like kyle i’d want to perpetuate this nonsense too
Ryan Capriglione
11/13/08 9:12am“Capitalist democracy is the main problem….”
So if the real problem is a capitalist democracy why does it even matter who is president. Obama was elected by a capitalist democracy and unless he decides to trample over the Constitution and replace our democracy with something different, i.e. socialism, fascism, or communism, he and every other president we will have in this country will be democratically elected into a capitalist society.
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EG
11/13/08 9:14amTo Uhh…,
I assume he is a graduate student in both African American studies and African studies.
Steve
11/13/08 9:34amYou have two options.
Option 1: everyone gets the same and nobody has a chance to change their position in life. We all line up every day for our bread and water rations
Option 2: Everyone has the chance to succeed and improve thier lot in life. Some will fail, some want to fail or do nothing. Those that bust their asses, have a better chance at succeeding.
I choose option 2 because I came from a broken home in Detroit (the glorious East Side you mention) and with option 2, I had a shot of atleast making it.
Top 5
11/13/08 9:35amTop 5 Reasons Kyle Mays has no credibility:
5. He claimed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 were not effective.
4. “Capitalist democracy is the main problem”
3. “poor black, Latino and Native Americans will continue to suffer the injustices of this so-called democracy.” No concern for poor whites.
2. He calls America a “so-called democracy” a week after a convincing win in a democratic election by an African American.
1. “I … do not perpetuate racism.”
Mark
11/13/08 10:32amRacism is dead. It has been replaced by a sort of culturalism and classism. If you wear dreadlocks, white or black, you will be discriminated against. If you grew up in a poor neighborhood, you will be discriminated against. If you have a “accent” you will be discriminated against.
If you were to describe the childhood of Barack Obama without his race described to you… I bet you would not identify it as a typical* African American experience.
*If you can ascribe a typical upbringing to someone.
MSUAlum2001
11/13/08 10:43amI was wondering…I agree with your comment, and your last point is dead on. As long as you or I earn more than a minority, racism will exist in Kyle’s mind. And Kyle, I hate to break it to you, go anywhere in the world and you’ll find discrimination or racism. Name me one country in this entire world where some form of discrimination has NOT taken place.
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Give Me A Break
11/13/08 11:07amTo the poster that said my response was so stupid it didn’t deserve a response I’d like for you to get your head out of your a**. If you honestly think that some black people didn’t go out to vote for Obama just because he was black then you are clearly living in a fantasy world. As someone who followed the presidential race closely and watched numerous news reports on black voters it’s clear that some black voters were swayed solely on the color of Obama’s skin.
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Kyle Mays
11/13/08 11:12amI have to admit it, I enjoy the comments by MSUAlumn2001. I wish that I could talk to you in person as you seem to have some intellectual capacity. However, when you talk about discrimination and racism, you are conflating the terms. There has always been discrimination and racism, but they are not in fact the same. Racisms prevalence began with the rise of capitalism in order to justify slavery and colonialism.
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quick!
11/13/08 11:45amSomebody get Mr. Mays another shovel. He’s gonna need one to keep digging himself deeper into this hole. I’ve never heard someone argue so desperately from a position of victimization.
“structural racism effects people of color; that is, in predominantly Black and Latino, and Native American areas of occupancy. I do not deny that poor whites suffer, but that is more specifically capitalism.
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Kyle Mays
11/13/08 11:45amI am a racist.
State of denial
11/13/08 11:55amPeople posting that racism does not exist, or is not the result of institutions, are â as another poster put it â like Holocaust deniers, sick and delusional. During the presidential election poll, after poll, after poll, pointed to great expanses of this great country of ours that said they would not or were reluctant to vote for Obama because of his race. And this was even amongst white working-class Democrats!
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Never Enough
11/13/08 11:55amNothing will ever be enough for the African American population. It doesn’t matter what is done or how time changes, you will always think whites owe you something. Let me just make this very clear: I don’t owe you a thing. There will never be complete equality across the board. There will always be ignorant people (whites and blacks) who will have issues with the other race. You cannot expect everyone to completely understand your side, and you can only ask for handouts and sympathy for so long. Stop complaining, and be happy with how far our nation has come.
Re: Quick
11/13/08 11:58amMy IQ level just sunk 10 points after reading Mr. Quick’s post. MSU should raise its standards. Writing teachers need to do a better job, lest MSU lose its accreditation for graduating degree-carrying imbeciles.
Re: Never Enough
11/13/08 12:05pmNobody asked you for a damn thing — who the hell are you? The keeper of all things white? Black people got this far by fighting for equal rights, the same rights you enjoy as a white person but are apparently offended that African Americans would expect the same. Kyle’s point, I believe, is that the election of Obama does not change the reality of millions of African Americans attending underfunded schools or shut out of the labor market based on race. Handouts my ass; Black people have and will continue to fight for freedom and equality. Get the the way, we’ll fight you, too!
Confusing institution with individual
11/13/08 12:15pmWhat Kyle Mays and State of Denial are doing is confusing individual acts with institutional acts, and racism with classism.
Are there racists (sxists, homophobes, mysoginists, etc.)in this country? Absolutely. Do these individuals function within institutions like police forces, and HR departments? Yup. Does that mean the institution is racist? Nope.
Once controlled for socio-economic status, the disparities State of Denial references are largely resolved. It isn’t about racism, it is about classism and access to social capital.
John the Baptist
11/13/08 12:19pmDo you want the white people to move back into the inner cities that have been destroyed. You can move to the suburbs too. Are the white people are just moving along the road of success looking the disenfranchised black people (or latino, native american) laughing at you.
No, they are saying, come on lets go. Its tough, your going to have bust your butt and I can not guarentee anything, but lets move. All I here is, help. Nobody helped me.
two way street
11/13/08 12:21pmSo for every white racist cop story, i am sure we can give you one that is the other way around.
I don’t deny racism in this country as long as you can say blacks,African Americans, colored or what ever you need to be called this week are also just as guilty of treating whites differently than they do blacks.
this country gives EVERYONE that wont allow blocked doors to stop them, the greatest gift of all…success.
Can somebody?
11/13/08 12:23pmBy the way, can somedbody please point out to me what rights and privileges are being institutionally denied to african americans?
I think Kyle Mays is a prime example of the opportunities available to African Americans. He is a graduate student at a major research institution. How has white privilege or institutional racism oppressed him? It looks like he took advantage of the opportunities available to him.
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well said
11/13/08 12:27pmJohn the baptist, very well said. Instead of bi-atching about the myriad of ways you’re being oppressed (real or imagined,) why not take some of that energy and put it towards making something of yourself. Sure beats sitting around waiting for a hand out or hand up and feeling sorry for yourself.
Kari
11/13/08 12:27pmTo respond to a few comments:
First, to MSUAlumn2001: By calling Frantz Fanon an “obscure scholar,” you only expose your own ignorance. Fanon is widely known and regarded as one of the leading scholars on colonization and colonial oppression, as well as race relations.
Also, just because racism exists in other parts of the world does not make it acceptable here. We claim to be an advanced industrialized nation, but the ghettos of our largest cities are bastions of poverty and violence and are largely populated by minority races.
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Top 5
11/13/08 12:31pmWe have a new #1 for the Top 5 reasons Kyle Mays has no credibility:
“There is Whiteness studies, where students can learn about how white people have white privilege, etc.”
Kari and Kyle,
11/13/08 12:33pmGood to see there are fellow comrades here. Down with capitalism! By promoting the ideals of opportunity, we all know capitalism is, in fact, oppressive. Let us forge together to bring down these capitalist pigs!
katrina
11/13/08 12:36pmI find it funny whites are blamed for the mess of katrina…..who was the mayor? Ohhh yeah he was black….A failure also, but it was the whites fault….
Kari What
11/13/08 12:38pmWhat can Obama do to help the black people out. He can give them money, are they going to use that wisley? He is the president of the USA, not the black people.
Why are the ghettos of our largest cities filled with minority races (by the way, there are more poor white people in this country than black/latino/native american combined)?
quick!
11/13/08 12:45pmHey, quit oppressing me. My poor grammar and typos are a result of the institutionalized anti-fattyism of which I spoke. My fingers are too fat to type on a standard keyboard, which puts me at a competitive disadavantage against the oppressive thinnies. I will not rest until society has addressed this injustice!
Katrin What
11/13/08 12:46pmWhen someone says, “This huricane is going to destroy the city, please leave” and you don’t, you have to look in the mirror. Doesn’t anybody have survival mode anymore.
But
11/13/08 12:59pm“When someone says, “This huricane is going to destroy the city, please leave” and you don’t, you have to look in the mirror. Doesn’t anybody have survival mode anymore.”
But that would require personal responibility, which is completely incompatible with structural racism and white privilege. If it is YOUR fault, how can you blame someone else?
Steve
11/13/08 1:02pmHoly yit, can’t this racist ever find anything else to write about? Okay we get it, blacks are opressed and it’s all the evil white man’s fault. Maybe if you can find 20 more ways to blame someone else for the elevated crime rates, elevated rates of imprisonment, decreased education rates, increased use of the welfare system, increased teen pregnancy and more, then we can all fix the problem. Next week Kyle is going to be writing about how the federal government needs to send out a repatriation check to every black citizen to some how fix something that happened 10 generations before he was even alive.
Buttttttt
11/13/08 1:04pmThese same whiners voted Marian Berry back in after he was caught on tape smoking crack with hookers…..But i know.. it was the whites fault…I wonder if Elliot Spitzer could get re-elected haha
Randy Marsh
11/13/08 1:40pmHey Kyle maybe you didnt get the memo…
EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED!!!!!!
OBAMA DID IT!!!! WE CHANGED!!!!!
Cel-e-brate good Obama! c’mon! It’s Obama Obama!
Who Let the Obama Out!! Woof Woof Woof Woof
Hey obama you so fine, you so fine you blow my mind. Hey Obama, Hey Obama!
YEAH OBAMA….ITS CHANGE…..EVERYTHING HAS FUCKING CHANGED!!!!
Everything is Different now!! CHANGE!!!!!!
We don’t have to to crap from these rich fat cats anymore!
It’s ok everything has changed. You know what OBAMA said “ YES WE CAN!”
EVERYTHING HAS FUCKING CHANGED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Frantz Fanon
11/13/08 1:57pmI just read up on myself since I never heard of it. Interesitng that I spent only 1 year (my dying year) inside the US. All of my writings occured while I was Algeria and I helped a communist get elected into power (Aimé Césaire). Ahh, a great writer indeed I was.
The Dude
11/13/08 2:34pmthe old man said take any rug in the house
Re: Kari and Kyle
11/13/08 2:49pmFellow Comrades?…WTF, are we in a fist fight here or trying to form an alliance. You are the problem that society is dividing. A bigger reason that we can’t work together. This is still one nation, right?
Chris
11/13/08 2:59pmMaybe the Katrina victims did not have means of transportation to evacuate or maybe they had nowhere to evacuate to. Maybe they were hoping to save their houses that were likely either not insured or not insured with a policy that would cover hurrican or flooding damages. Should they have been smarter about their insurance? Probably, but as products of a horrific New Orleans School system they probably didn’t get much of an education. Don’t you think that they would have loved to drive away and stay with a relative or a hotel?
Dam
11/13/08 3:07pmI guess your right it was the whites fault we didn’t give them all cars to drive away in and we didn’t give them all hotels to stay in or we didn’t provide them with flood insurance….But didn’t that great mayor they have waste buses on the rich hotel visitors??What color was he?
You know the one that wants a chocolate city…..But hes not racist.He can’t be, cause he doesn’t have power…..oppps sorry yes he does.
Crystal
11/13/08 3:29pmClayton County, Georgia.
The black led Board of Education lost their accreditation for the entire county’s schools. Their unethical deals were discovered and they still refused to step down. So, the kids who did well in school and could go to college are having a hard time because they graduated from a high school with no accreditation. How sad that they did this to their “future”.
Chris
11/13/08 3:32pmDam- I never said it was white people’s fault, I was responding to the poster’s overly simplistic view of the situation of those who became stranded in New Orleans.
Oh and pointing to the actions of the mayor hardly proves institutional racism had nothing to do with the tragedy.
oh well
11/13/08 3:52pmChris
...Listen my point is and always be there are people like Kyle that prey on race relations to get them selves ahead. Thats what is the problem today.People like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton make a living off race division and never want to see America united.It drives me nuts when i see blacks follow these losers and listen to them blame everyone else for their problems BUT what really is the cause.Them selves!Its called personal responsibility!
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Chris
11/13/08 5:09pmMaybe Kyle, Jackson and Sharpton are simply trying to get ahead and maybe they don’t want a United America, the evidence to the contrary notwithstanding. It doesn’t make racism any less real or any less of a problem. Let’s stop pretending that some poor black kid in Detroit Public School has the same opportunity as some kid from Grosse Pointe or Birmingham. Sure theoretically they could both become President or a doctor or lawyer, but the odds are overwhelmingly stacked against the DPS student (regardless of race).
...Let’s also stop pretending this is the same sort of society as the immigrants encountered.
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Never Enough, good point!
11/13/08 5:24pmI agree that blacks can only ask for sympathy and support for so long. I’m tired of having to look around before I say something, afraid that I will offend someone, when I hear black people shouting “Cracker this, Cracker that” all the time. And I can’t say a thing? How exactly is that fair? I’m not racist, I’m really not. I actually have black family, and they’re decent people who understand that THEY are the only ones who can make anything happen for them. They don’t ask for apologies or hand-outs. Equality is not just one-sided, and I think any race should recognize that before complaining again.
It isn't about race
11/13/08 5:38pm“It doesnât make racism any less real or any less of a problem. Letâs stop pretending that some poor black kid in Detroit Public School has the same opportunity as some kid from Grosse Pointe or Birmingham.”
I don’t think that anyone would disagree that there are disparities in access to quality education, healthcare, employment, whatever across this country. But to argue that it is race based is ridiculous.
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Maria
11/13/08 5:47pmI think it’s funny that a post like this could rattle so many people in this way…We went from calling authors “obscure”,to the ad hominem tu quoque fallacy of saying, you too, Kyle, are racist!! to a fat guy complaining about inflation (no pun intended), to Katrina….
I think Kyle’s post is educational and mindful. Let’s not be confused by the symbol of an African American man in the presidential seat by believing that his slogan, “change we can believe in” will ‘decrease’ or ‘eradicate’ racism in America. ...View full comment »
Maria
11/13/08 6:22pmThis is interesting too…http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=96953415
MSUAlum2001
11/13/08 7:31pmKari, while I admit I’m ignorant on who Fanon is, I bet a significant amount of Kyle’s readers didn’t know who he was either. He’s well known in one specific area of study. To the majority that makes him obscure! It’d be like me quoting Linus Pauling for something. Only a few would even know who I’m talking about…thus making it an obscure reference!
Additionally, if you really think about it Kyle, racism and race are man made constructs.
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Fanon
11/13/08 10:00pmFrantz Fanon is the foundational scholar for post-colonial theory, one of the first to examine social, political, economic, and racial/ethnic conditions during and after European occupation and exploitation of non-European countries. How could you guys miss Fanon in your classes on global cultures, world history, trans-Atlantic — oh! I forgot! MSU does not require nor encourage its students to study anything outside of white supremacy and American exceptionalism. How could I forget that the curricula is white supremacist? Of course you don’t know who Fanon is. Moo you.
Re: MSU Alumni guy
11/13/08 10:36pmDude, uh, no. Capitalism started in Europe during feudalism in the 14th century — marked by the “crisis of the 14th century.” Racial distinctions that were established followed during European “colonization” of Africa, beginning with the Portugese in 1415.
Trans-Atlantic slavery followed that same year, as European traders sought free, easily exploited labor for maximum profits.
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Re: MSU Alumni guy
11/13/08 10:40pmBy the way, who gives a rat’s tail what you “think?” If you’re going to try to cite history, come with some facts. Don’t be making up isht as you go along, as you clearly do in your last email. The dates you gave were hundreds of years off, your conclusions completely ahistorical. You assume Black folks don’t history. Uh…how do you know you’re not trying to argue with a historian right now? Get it right.
TG
11/14/08 7:42am“MSU does not require nor encourage its students to study anything outside of white supremacy and American exceptionalism.”
Umm, IAH 201? Anybody?
LansingTrucker
11/14/08 7:41pmKyle Mays you sound like you sit in the church with the Obama’s listening to The Biggest biggott Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr, for over twenty years. You are so right Blacks are racist are they Jermiah Wright is just a racist Biggott. Give us a break if you believe there arent Black Racist, that’s like saying its 98 Degrees year around in East. Lansing.
Erin
11/14/08 8:29pmGood letter.
“If you grew up in a poor neighborhood, you will be discriminated against.”
Strange, I grew up in a poorer neighborhood than many of my friends of color. I still don’t get pulled over for no reason in primarily white neighborhoods. I don’t have to fear for my life because of the color of my skin, and if a person of color calls me a cracker, honkey or other term for white people I do not feel my life is in jeopardy because those are not words which have historically accompanied, and still often do accompany, the assault and murder of people who look similar to me.
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