Weapons on campus would threaten student safety
I’d like to respond to Brian Wlosinski’s letter to the editor Carrying guns on campus could work if regulated (SN 11/19). This solution has flaws that need to be considered. By allowing weapons on campus, the chance of someone who should not have a weapon getting ahold of one will increase dramatically. While this could be solved with locks and safes, the problem still exists. No one is perfect, and slipups will happen. If the amount of weapons increased on campus, the probability for accidents also increases. People often make poor decisions. You would hope those who have concealed weapons permits don’t make mistakes, but it only takes one to cause a disaster.
Additionally, we live in an environment that can be highly influenced by alcohol. On numerous occasions I have seen people get into fights over things as stupid as a lost pillow. What will stop someone who is drunk from grabbing their gun and waving it around? Also not considered is the psychological effect of shooting someone. Granted, a similar effect would be felt after witnessing a rampage where you could do nothing. We also need to consider the fact that someone could be shot because they were thought to have a gun. When police struggle to distinguish between real guns and airsoft guns, how are students supposed to be able to?
If you really want to stop innocent people from being hurt, you have to address the problem at the core and get rid of all the weapons in the world. But let’s face it — this is not going to happen.
Thomas Theisen
mechanical engineering senior
Published on Wednesday, November 19, 2008
Comments
Ted Nudgent
11/19/08 @ 7:01pm
Guns are all over society and people drink and due drugs and get in emotional fights and this has not lead to blood in the streets. Almost all gun crime is premeditated, not emotional. I knew of a house with three guys living in it who did most kinds of drugs and were convicted of numerous criminal offences, including assault and theft. They had two assault rifles (semi automatics) and never in years of drunken brawls did they shoot or even pretend to shoot each other or anyone else. There is no argument here, just an ignorance bread irratianl fear manifesting in hypothecical what ifs framed as valid points. These exact “arguments” have been used everytime requirments for gun ownership or concealed carry are relaxed. But concealed carry has been allowed in all but two states and basically heavily deregulated in about two thirds of the states and violent crime has gone down. I’m not saying that the guns lowered the crime rate, I’m just saying that is discredits the idea that there increased availibilty raises the crime rate.
SJM
11/19/08 @ 8:01pm
Your lack of common sense is staggering. You should probably hang out with those drug addict, criminals some more and see how many days you can go without an accident because by probability, it would suggest that an accident or at least and incident is due. Besides that, one example is not enough basis to say that guns don’t cause problems. Please also show me where you got the statistic on the lowering of the crime rate because I would like to see this. And yes, there is an argument here.
Ted Nudgent
11/19/08 @ 8:31pm
Your having trouble reading, I specifically said that I do NOT think the increase of gun usage can be shown to lower crime.
“I’m not saying that the guns lowered the crime rate”
Did you just not get that far in my one paragraph note? Nobody knows for sure but the estimates are that there are 100,000,000+ modern style (semi automatic) firearms in the country and perhaps twice that number of less modern but still effective and deadly older types. (like bolt actions and revolvers) About half off all households have at least one gun in them. Arguments that students shouldn’t have them because they drink and do stupid stuff are no less applicable to the rest of society, because they also drink, get emotinal, are stressed and do stupid stuff. My point is that you don’t see the moronic killings in society that you absolutely certain will happen with students.
In 2000 the Michigan state legislature decided to make getting a CCW “shall Issue” meaning that as long as you qualified you had to be issued a permit to carry a concealed weapon. The State News and people like you advanced the exact same arguments, people will kill each other during traffic accidents and shoot people whenever they have a bad day. Well none of that came to pass, violent crime went down. Again I am not saying it went down because of allowing more people to carry guns, all I am saying is that it discredits the Idea that allowing people more gun carrying ability will cause more bloodshed, which is your point. Also what can be said for Michigan can be said for every other state that has allowed “shall issue.”
Utah already allows students to carry in classrooms, and there have been no accidents, or crimes commited with stolen guns, or any of hte other things you claim are certain to happen. Whats your explanation, that human nature is fundimentally different in Utah?
Some Guy
11/19/08 @ 9:11pm
Some food for thought
Number of firearms in America: 228,000,000
Number of firearm owning households: At least 50,600,000
Projected firearm owning households in America: 60-85 million
Number of guns used in crimes: 450,000
Percentage of guns used in crimes: 0.09%
Over 50 million law-abiding, gun owning households committed NO crime today… but collectively, we stop 2.5 million crimes per year… 6,849 a day!
Fact: Every day, 550 rapes, 1,100 murders, and 5,200 other violent crimes are prevented just by showing a gun. In less than 0.9% of the time is the gun ever actually fired.
SJM
11/19/08 @ 10:33pm
We go to MSU though, this is not some crime ridden ghetto and I highly doubt any student carrying a weapon will thwart a violent crime (which more people this year have falsely reported than have actually occurred) on campus. So just leave the guns 1,000 feet from campus like federal law says. When your leaving for class you shouldn’t have to worry about your notebook and your pencil and your gun. Those items just don’t mix. School isn’t the place for firearms and this is the argument at hand.
Ted Nudgent
11/19/08 @ 10:53pm
I doubt a student will stop a shooting, because basically the chances of a shooting are very low. All I’m saying is that people should be able to defend themselves. Your saying that’s bad because my having a gun increases the risk of bloodshed. I contend that this is not the case, and I have raised several points to that effect. Rather than address any of them you simply re assert what you already have, guns are bad and will cause bloodshed. Your not reconciling your views on how intrinsically bad guns are with the fact society is not correspondingly violent given the ubiquity of firearms. Nor have you addressed Utah, or the various states legalizing and liberalizing concealed carry. Instead your just restating you original assertions.
people are dumb
11/19/08 @ 11:19pm
One of my friends got a CCW a few years ago and carried his gun everywhere. I just made fun of him until he stopped. If you think you are going to end a crime from occurring out in public because you have a gun you are kidding yourself.
brad
11/20/08 @ 1:51am
Guys, CCW isn’t anything new. IIRC, there are a few hundred thousand folks in Michigan with a license to carry. You’ve probably passed people carrying weapons. And yet they don’t go around shooting people randomly, or shooting a bystander while preventing a crime themselves. Statistics show that people that have licenses commit less crime (violent and otherwise) per capita then normal people. If people feel safer carrying a pistol or revolver, so be it. As long as they don’t go postal and shoot anyone (which they typically do not do), I don’t see what the big deal is.
People that get these licenses arn’t random yahoos. They go through hours of training, have to shoot well on a test, and pass a thorough background check. These guys arn’t alcoholic college students, as a group.
Now, should firearm be on campus, I don’t know. But there is certainly no reason to generalize the people that get licenses as your typical college student. I know a few license holders, and they carry everywhere when not on campus (and when law allows, obviously). They arn’t the type to go out and get smashed with a weapon on them.
Just my 1.7 cents (adjusted for inflation). Continue the gun debate.
Steve
11/20/08 @ 7:06am
IF YOU OUTLAW GUNS, THEN ONLY THE OUTLAWS WILL HAVE GUNS.
What does that mean in this situation? The only people that give a shit about these gun laws and “no carry” zones are the people that are law-abiding. Those that are not law-abiding don’t give a rats ass whether the gun they are carrying is legal, registered, etc. People who are you going to do stupid shit with guns will do stupid shit… regardless of whether our campus is a “no carry” zone. So why not allow those that are law-abiding, and trained in gun safety to carry their guns onto campus? CPL training teaches safety above all else.
Academy Recruiter
11/20/08 @ 8:06am
IF YOU WANT TO CARRY A GUN AROUND IN ORDER TO FIGHT CRIME, JOIN THE POLICE ACADEMY AND BECOME A COP!!!!!!!!!!
john wayne
11/20/08 @ 8:26am
vigilante justice own, judge jurty and executioner baby
John F.
11/20/08 @ 8:28am
Dear “Some Guy,” actually, your numbers are slightly off. The facts are: every day, 543 rapes, 1,211 murders, and 5,205 other violent crimes are prevented just by showing a gun. So, in reality, there are slightly less rapes than you mentioned, but also slightly more murders, with the number of other violent crimes essentially the same as the statistic you so kindly and conscientiously supplied.
I have proof certain of this.
Pat
11/20/08 @ 8:38am
Hey Ted, go back to making music.
Oh wait…………don’t do that either.
Tim
11/20/08 @ 9:59am
The statistics about licenses firearm owners committing less crime is obvious since you can’t have criminal convictions on your record to get a license. In other words it’s sort of self serving.
That isn’t to deny that the wild west scenarios thrown out there by people are exceedingly unlikely.
I still have trouble getting around the idea that our society will somehow be safer with more guns around.
Mark
11/20/08 @ 12:49pm
I have dibs on getting rid of all the large rocks on campus. Who is going to get rid of the baseball bats or chains or box cutters?
Someone could fashion a weapon out of a tree branch, we should remove those pesky trees.
Someone could use their fists as a weapon for violence, we should require all people to be handcuffed from behind before coming on campus. But, then you could always still kick. I think that everyone should be hogtied before coming on campus.
Dan'l
11/20/08 @ 2:11pm
Mark great idea. I’ll fetch the duct tape and cement and packing crates to push everyone around in. But then who’s going to vet the people pushing the other around. Man this get hard. Uzzi’s for everyone and the last one standing owns it all.
Tim
11/20/08 @ 2:29pm
Mark- Excellent post. If we let the government prevent us from carrying guns on campus what will be next? Oh you mean they have done that for a long time now and there has been no slippery slope?
slippery slope!
11/20/08 @ 2:44pm
if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will marry box turtles
Lenny
11/20/08 @ 2:48pm
Whenever anyone uses the, “if you outlaw guns, we better ban sporks, rocks, etc..” a little piece of me dies.
Fools. How many murders and crimes are committed with rocks, twigs, and box cutters? Compare the results with guns. Get a new argument.
The Fork Rules
11/20/08 @ 3:01pm
Whenever anyone uses the, “if you outlaw guns, we better ban sporks, rocks, etc..” a little piece of me dies.
Check out this
Or This
Boston T. Party
11/20/08 @ 5:54pm
Lenny, Hands and feet kill more people than “assault rifles” and the very powerful .50 caliber though often banned has never been used in a crime. Statistically only .09% of guns are every used in crime making them safer than cars, planes, trains, cops, and cigarettes. In Australia and England, after guns were banned crime continued (or even increased) and the governments have since banned swords, steak knives, and in England anything you carry to defend yourself is illegal. (no joke they have prosecuted people for carrying a rolled up news paper)